Charles Stanley on Eternal Security

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    4,319
    Likes Received:
    0
    Charles Stanley may be the only Southern Baptist who was a part of the so-called "conservative resurgence" that I can listen to. Indeed, I have been blessed many times by his sermons.

    But some things he has said and believes I just can't take -- the following, for instance:

    "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."

    And this: "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand."

    And further: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord."

    This is a false and damaging teaching.

    Here in Southern Baptist OSAS land, I feel like an alien. I wish there was a General Baptist church nearby, but the closest one is an hour and a half away.
     
  2. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,114
    Likes Received:
    220
    Have you thought about starting a Gen Bap church?
     
  3. steaver

    steaver
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,005
    Likes Received:
    82
    I don't think the way Stanley presents eternal security here is done very well, even wrong at some points. However, the truth of being born a child of God and remaining a child of God forever is soundly expressed in the scriptures. One is born with CHrist and the two become one, a new creation. One cannot nor would not ever change this for it is the ulitimate love which no one would want to have broken, even if they feel they have broken it by their sin which they allow themselves to get caught up in at times.
     
  4. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    320
    Likes Received:
    0
    My friend. Charles Stanley is my pastor, and I believe he preaches sound biblical doctrine, but there are times he could stand to clean up his lingo. Charles Stanley is a firm believer in OSAS. It's just that he has a different path, but the destination is always the same.
     
    #4 Christos doulos, Feb 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2012
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: Very true, but sadly down the same path of error.
     
  6. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    6
    THIS. I remember reading Stanley's book 'ETERNAL SECURITY' many years ago back when I was a OSAS-believin' Southern Baptist, and as I studied the Scriptures over the years I quickly realized how his book was unbiblical and potentially dangerous on so many levels.
     
  7. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    What you said Charles Stanley believes is documented in his book entitled "Eternal Security, You Can be Sure" in both the 1990 and 2002 editions. Stanley believes the same as the late Zane Hodges who is referenced in his book. So what you heard is not a mistake of the moment on Stanley's part.

    Stanley/Hodges are the only evangelical teachers that I know that believes that you don't have to be trusting Christ as Savior when you die to go to heaven. Stanley believes a True Christian can stop trusting in Christ as Savior which contradicts what most ES Christians believe. In this he agrees with the Classic Arminians, except he believes the apostates are saved anyway.

    Concerning the Southern Baptist OSAS Land you referenced, Stanley has not been called out on this type teaching because the Non-Calvinists in the SBC need Stanley to help resist the attempted takeover of the Calvinists (IMO).
     
    #7 drfuss, Feb 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2012
  8. 12strings

    12strings
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2004
    Messages:
    2,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Regarding the last statement...I haven't heard Stanley involved in that debate at all. Maybe I'm just not paying attention. I didn't really think he was involved in those arguments.
     
  9. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    I did not say he was involved in that debate. I think they do not want to allienate him due to the struggle because they may need him.
     
  10. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    truth of the Bible is that ALL who have been saved by God are kept by same God, as He will make sure to bring them completed in their salvation unto Christ at time of the Rapture/Second Coming or death!

    true christians cannot lose faith, as is gift of God, and His gifts/callling are irrovacble!
     
  11. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    ANY verses stating In NT real chrsitian can lose their faith?

    isn't there a passage saying that even IF we were to become faithless, God is faithful to us?

    Is This "Unorthodox" view regarding security of the believer part of his 'millinual exclusion" belief?

    NOT GOING TO DISCUSS THAT,JUST ASKING IF PART OF IT!
     
  12. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    There are many verses that are interpreted to mean a Christian can lose or forfeit their salvation. There are also many verses that are interpreted to mean a Christian can not lose or forfeit their salvation. I stopped debating about eternal security years ago.

    Stanley's unorthodox view regarding eternal security is connected with his belief in millinual exclusion. In his book, chapter 8 is entitled "For those who stop believing" gives his version of eternal security. His version of Millinual exclusion is covered in chapter 14, which says Christians who stop believing or have not lived for Christ, will be separate from other Christians until they have been remorseful long enough (including ghashing their teeth). He does not know how long they will be in this remorseful state, but then they will join the rest of us.
     
  13. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    First off, the Bible says when we are faith-LESS He remains faithful. I believe a true believer can be deceived, if not the warnings against it in Scripture are moot.

    Charles Stanley holds to the Free Grace eschatology which consists of Millenial Exclusionism, where a true believer dying in the state mention in the OP will spend 1000 years in Hell along with unbelievers, but will be reinstated to the Kingdom (what they believe wiping every tear from our eyes truly means). The stuff I've read on here the past couple of weeks from kyredneck and forest sound awfully similar in scope.
     
  14. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think you are correct about the 1000 years in hell being a part of the general millinial (1000 years) exclusion belief. However, Charles Stanley believes in only a version of millenial exclusion, which says that the time an unfaithful Christians and apostates will spend away from other Christians is not known, nor is the place known.
     
    #14 drfuss, Feb 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2012
  15. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is a distinction without value.
     
  16. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since I don't believe either version, I agree. However, in answering Webdog's post, I think the distinction show be made so people don't make the wrong sweeping generalizations.
     
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,149
    Likes Received:
    207
    Have you ever worked in a nursing home? I have. I have known godly loving believers become cursing hateful unbeleiving people due to physical infirmaties and other mental illnesses. Do you think they lost their salvation?

    Alzheimers, and many other aging diseases can change the complete personality of a person.

    If you regard this as an EXCEPTION to the rule then that opens the door for other EXCEPTIONS to the rule.
     
  18. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,324
    Likes Received:
    0
    regardless of the term used by him and others that hold to that belief, they have just undercut the efficiency of the Cross of Chriost to redeen, secure, and keep salvation for us...

    For either jesus paid it ALL, and NOTHING that we do can remove us from God, as God anchors us into Christ, or we have no real salvation at all...
     
  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,149
    Likes Received:
    207
    Let me see if I understand what you said correctly. Are you saying that Stanley believes that a true believer dying in an unfaithful condition will spend 1000 years in hell with unbelievers, thus similar to the doctrine of purgatory, and then be reinstated later with other believers?

    If that is what you are saying, could you cite the source?

    Thanks
     
  20. drfuss

    drfuss
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,692
    Likes Received:
    0
    See my posts #7 and #12 for the version of millenial exclusion that Stanley believes. Stanley believes the amount of time is determined by God and the place is not known, which is different from the general millenial exclusion belief.

    As to the source of his beliefs, his Book entitled "Eternal Security, You can be Sure" provides his version of eternal security and millenial exclusion. Both his 1990 and 2002 editions.
     
    #20 drfuss, Feb 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2012

Share This Page

Loading...