Charles Wesley's "Oh Horrible Decree"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jonathan.borland, Nov 28, 2012.

  1. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
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    What do you all think about this one? I think it gets at the root of the Calvinits' "determinism problem" quite well, don't you? All dialogue welcome!



    Oh Horrible Decree
    by Charles Wesley


    Ah! Gentle, gracious Dove,
    And art thou grieved in me,
    That sinners should restrain thy love,
    And say, “It is not free:
    It is not free for all:
    The most, thou passest by,
    And mockest with a fruitless call
    Whom thou hast doomed to die.”

    They think thee not sincere
    In giving each his day,
    “ Thou only draw’st the sinner near
    To cast him quite away,
    To aggravate his sin,
    His sure damnation seal:
    Thou show’st him heaven, and say’st, go in
    And thrusts him into hell.”

    O HORRIBLE DECREE
    Worthy of whence it came!
    Forgive their hellish blasphemy
    Who charge it on the Lamb:
    Whose pity him inclined
    To leave his throne above,
    The friend, and Saviour of mankind,
    The God of grace, and love.

    O gracious, loving Lord,
    I feel thy bowels yearn;
    For those who slight the gospel word
    I share in thy concern:
    How art thou grieved to be
    By ransomed worms withstood!
    How dost thou bleed afresh to see
    Them trample on thy blood!

    To limit thee they dare,
    Blaspheme thee to thy face,
    Deny their fellow-worms a share
    In thy redeeming grace:
    All for their own they take,
    Thy righteousness engross,
    Of none effect to most they make
    The merits of thy cross.

    Sinners, abhor the fiend:
    His other gospel hear—
    “The God of truth did not intend
    The thing his words declare,
    He offers grace to all,
    Which most cannot embrace,
    Mocked with an ineffectual call
    And insufficient grace.

    “The righteous God consigned
    Them over to their doom,
    And sent the Saviour of mankind
    To damn them from the womb;
    To damn for falling short,
    “Of what they could not do,
    For not believing the report
    Of that which was not true.

    “The God of love passed by
    The most of those that fell,
    Ordained poor reprobates to die,
    And forced them into hell.”
    “He did not do the deed”
    (Some have more mildly raved)
    “He did not damn them—but decreed
    They never should be saved.

    “He did not them bereave
    Of life, or stop their breath,
    His grace he only would not give,
    And starved their souls to death.”
    Satanic sophistry!
    But still, all-gracious God,
    They charge the sinner’s death on thee,
    Who bought’st him with thy blood.

    They think with shrieks and cries
    To please the Lord of hosts,
    And offer thee, in sacrifice
    Millions of slaughtered ghosts:
    With newborn babes they fill
    The dire infernal shade,
    “For such,” they say, “was thy great will,
    Before the world was made.”

    How long, O God, how long
    Shall Satan’s rage proceed!
    Wilt thou not soon avenge the wrong,
    And crush the serpent’s head?
    Surely thou shalt at last
    Bruise him beneath our feet:
    The devil and his doctrine cast
    Into the burning pit.

    Arise, O God, arise,
    Thy glorious truth maintain,
    Hold forth the bloody sacrifice,
    For every sinner slain!
    Defend thy mercy’s cause,
    Thy grace divinely free,
    Lift up the standard of thy cross,
    Draw all men unto thee.

    O vindicate thy grace,
    Which every soul may prove,
    Us in thy arms of love embrace,
    Of everlasting love.
    Give the pure gospel word,
    Thy preachers multiply,
    Let all confess their common Lord,
    And dare for him to die.

    My life I here present,
    My heart’s last drop of blood,
    O let it all be freely spent
    In proof that thou art good,
    Art good to all that breathe,
    Who all may pardon have:
    Thou willest not the sinner’s death,
    But all the world wouldst save.

    O take me at my word,
    But arm me with thy power,
    Then call me forth to suffer, Lord,
    To meet the fiery hour:
    In death will I proclaim
    That all may hear thy call,
    And clap my hands amidst the flame,
    And shout,—HE DIED FOR ALL
     
  2. SolaSaint

    SolaSaint
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    What is a Calvanit?
     
  3. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
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    Hey Bro. Rick,

    I type most of these things out on my iPhone and needless to say, my thumb is about the size of three keys. I'm just happy when it's somewhat intelligible considering this tiny screen.
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    All I Have to do is take a look at Methodism today & laugh.
     
  5. 12strings

    12strings
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    Amazing that for all their arguing against Calvinism, John Wesley could still write this:

    John Calvin was a pious, learned, sensible man; and so was James Harmens. Many Calvinists are pious, learned, sensible men; and so are many Arminians. Only the former hold absolute predestination; the latter, conditional.

    One word more: Is it not the duty of every Arminian Preacher, First, never, in public or in private, to use the word Calvinist as a term of reproach; seeing it is neither better nor worse than calling names? -- a practice no more consistent with good sense or good manners, than it is with Christianity. Secondly. To do all that in him lies to prevent his hearers from doing it, by showing them the sin and folly of it? And is it not equally the duty of every Calvinist Preacher, First, never in public or in private, in preaching or in conversation, to use the word Arminian as a term of reproach? Secondly. To do all that in him lies to prevent his hearers from doing it, by showing them the sin and folly thereof; and that the more earnestly and diligently, if they have been accustomed so to do? perhaps encouraged therein by his own example!

    -The Question, "What Is an Arminian?" Answered by a Lover of Free Grace
    by John Wesley


    This sets a good example for us on this board of how to treat others, IMOHO.
     
  6. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
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    Good post, 12strings! Thank you!

    Earthwindfire, please don't detract with your silly non sequiturs, like, uh I dunno, the present day Ephesian and Philippi churches are what... Therefore Paul was full of it. Don't make me laugh.
     
  7. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
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    On the other hand, Charles Wesley calls the view "hellish blasphemy," not very diplomatic but quite poetic.
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Just more incoherent rambling from you again.....:tongue3:
     
  9. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland
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    Ok, brother, sometimes I wake up in the morning with my phone in hand and I discover two or three posts I don't remember writing. Anyway, I take it you don't care much for Wesley's little poem?
     
  10. 12strings

    12strings
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    That sounds like a drinking problem to me! :smilewinkgrin:
     
  11. mont974x4

    mont974x4
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    This poem is little more than the ranting of man ignorant (willful or not I do not know) of what Calvinism teaches and unwilling to deal fairly with those who teach the Doctrines of Grace that are found in Scripture.
     
  12. mont974x4

    mont974x4
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    Lol Most Arminians I know are not drinkers. It is part of the fear of losing their salvation.
     
  13. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    Far better to follow the Words of Jesus Christ than make His Sacrifice of no affect by heeding the false teaching of Wesley!
     
  14. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation
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    You may dislike Wesley's poem......but, he was neither ignorant of Calvinism's claims, nor did he mis-represent them willfully.....Much Calvinist apologetic has also evolved over time. So don't be so swift to judge his views 250 or so after his writing, from a post-modern perspective. That would be to be equally as disingenuous as you are accussing him of being... Pay attention to the Calvinist Theology extant in HIS era prior to passage of swift judgement.
     
    #14 HeirofSalvation, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2012
  15. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation
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    Whether or not one can, in fact, lose their salvation is not a confessionally decided belief amongst Arminians........Jacobus Arminius himself was non-committal on the topic. Most "Wesleyans" however, do think it possible. It is usually best to distinguish between "Classical" and "Wesleyan" Arminians....
     
  16. mont974x4

    mont974x4
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    My pastoral degree is from a Nazarene school. I am well aware of their errors of the Wesley's and their attitude towards Calvin and the DoG. I stand by my earlier post.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    now thats funny! :laugh:
     
  18. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation
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    Apparently........you are absolutely NOT aware of them, and that, by your own admission as I cite here:

    Whatever Nazarene School you cited your degree in to sound superior....owes you your tuition-money back.

    My question is:
    1.) Do you know?
    or.........
    2.) Do you NOT know?

    Or..........did the affore-mentioned Nazarene degree not equip you to be consistent with such questions?
     
    #18 HeirofSalvation, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2012
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    Brother....the Wesley family was more than familiar with George Whitefield as they were all Methodists together only George gravitated to Calvinism & the Wesley family were all convinced Arminians.
     
  20. mont974x4

    mont974x4
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    nevermind not worth the effort
     
    #20 mont974x4, Nov 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 29, 2012

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