Chastened at the JSOC?

Well, I don't think there's any Scripture to support your belief that all chastening happens here on this earth, and if there is, there's a contradiction:

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive [future, middle, indicative; causes for himself] for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Jam 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive [future, middle, indicative] the greater condemnation [judgment; from the same root word as "krisis"].

 

Either way, the true believers will not fall into condemnation. Writter Word of God.

 

Ed can you clarify what you mean by that? What are these folks that are not rewarded with a physical/literal Millennial Messianic Kingdom service doing?

Also I don't know if you missed it, but I posed a couple of questions to you a couple of pages back again to get clarification to what you were saying.

 

Oh, so you are OK with Jesus saying that we can be cast away at the judgment seat, but when I say it, I'm a heretic?

 

You're saying pretty much what James Newman is saying in the first part of this quote, but then you go on and seem to think that "rewards" are always "good stuff". They're wages; recompense. They are in no way guaranteed to be "good stuff".

 

Don't you ever take things into context?
All chastening is confined to this earth. You have taken this verse out of context. What is it talking about? Look at the previous verses:
Children obey your parents.
Fathers provoke not your children.
Servants obey your masters.
If you do wrong (in respect to your relationships to others on this earth) you will receive just retribution for the wrong that you have done. It doesn't say it will necessarily be in heaven. Whatsoever ye shall sow that shall ye also reap.

Nice try. Good failure.
James is speaking of the tongue. The whole chapter is on the use of the tongue and how we use in on this earth. Why not read the rest of the verse. "For in many things we offend..." Are we going to offend by our words in heaven? You've got to be joking, right? This situation is clearly on earth. Are you gong to go out of your way to offend the King of Kings and Lord of Lords before whom you will stand at the JSOC? You are really serious about this are you? Still ocnvinced that this is not limited to the earth. If we reign with Christ will you go out of your way to offend as one who rules with Christ? Read the chapter!!
DHK

 

A reward is good. A loss of reward is bad. That is how the JSOC works.
Good works are like gold, silver and precious stones which will remain forever.
Unfruitful worsk are like wood, hay, and stubble which will burn up in the fire and be lost forever.
There is gain and loss of reward. Read 1Cor.3:11-15.

 

Mind showing me the expression "loss of reward" in the Bible?

BTW, I have to walk out the door in less than a minute. When I return home, I will once again post the three different words that the KJV translators chose to translate as "reward" (although not consistently), and none of them even remotely imply the idea of only "good" rewards.

 

Sometimes reward is bad.
2 Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
Revelation 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

and being cast away is never good.

Matthew 13:47-50
47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

I was speaking specifically in reference to the JSOC, as explained in my previous post.
Of course there will be bad works when every man will be judged according to their works at the Great White Throne Judgement. There will be nothing but bad works there, as the works of every unsaved man are bad before God. There is none good no not one.
DHK

 

1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

What about being cast away in Luke 9:25?

1 Corinthians 9:27
27 But I keepunder my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

This ME teaching is not new--it was refuted back in 1914 by Sir Robert Anderson as the following states:

 

It was noticed anyway. The man never tells you why we are exhorted to walk worthy of our calling. Or what that calling is, for that matter. His argument seems to be "well they ignored it in the past, so we can safely ignore it today too. Whew!"

 

Cast away "DISQUALIFIED from the Gospel" in this case --

I.e. Fiery Hell - the 2nd death - the lake of fire - the NOT-Gospel place!

There is only ONE Gospel and that is "The Gospel of the Kingdom" that is preached in all the world Matt 24.

Now comes that “unpleasant section” for many where Paul points out the seriousness of this Gospel pursuit for the goal of saving people -- so that I may by all means save some. as he says.

Paul shows his explicit objective when he “Does all things for the sake of the Gospel”. He SAYS he does all things so that “he may become a fellow partaker of IT – the Gospel”!!

Those who want to limit this discussion to “the amount of candy you get in heaven” are missing the entire point. Paul argues for the very basic issue of “participating IN THE GOSPEL”. Not to participate in the ONE Gospel of our salvation – is to be lost brothers and sisters.

It is as a “fellow partaker of the GOSPEL” that Paul wants to live AND to preach. Indeed what is the point of preaching if he is not also PARTAKING of the benefits of the Gospel – eternal life.

Paul shows that his own example in persuing that goal of being “A fellow partaker of the Gospel” is the standard/model/role-model for the saints. Paul argues that ALL saints are pursuing the same eternal imperishable reward in their striving – in their self-discipline. Paul says “but WE do it to receive an IMPERISHABLE objective.


He has left the realm of “I am a leader and Apostle and so I have special rights” to the perspective of WE ALL want to be “Fellow partakers” of the Gospel for as he has just pointed out when the Gospel is received the people are saved. (; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some.)

So now in this “fellow partaker of the Gospel” model for ALL that Paul is offering (in the form of his own life example) he shows how it works. He shows the perspective of the saint, the attitude, the focus the Olympic ALL for the Gospel focus that is NEEDED. IN fact he argues that it is critical EVEN for an Apostle for even in this most exaulted case HE is at risk “LEST after preaching the Gospel to other I MYSELF should be disqualified” from that very Gospel!

How instructive!

Yet how fervently ignored by those who find this to be an “unpleasant” section of scripture!

Take each "detail" and show the meaning IN the 1Cor 9 context itself. Let the argument speak for itself IN the text you are exegeting.

Or do you read vs 23-27 and respond with

And so when Paul says

Do you respond with

"Are you saved by your efforts of paying close attention, persevering and taking pains with those disciplines?"

Will your response to each of these displeasing texts be simply to challenge them and show how your view of "other texts" don't allow these unpleasant texts to exist??


When Paul says

He speaks of “The loss of all things” and the goal of “knowing Christ”. In fact he says his goal is to “gain Christ”. More than this – he seeks to “attain to the resurrection from the dead”.

Those who think that “knowing Christ,” and “gaining Christ” and ‘the resurrection of the righteous” are all things “other than salvation” have not thought about the point of Gospel salvation in the complete form it is presented in scripture.

So when we see such direct appeals to the salvific benefits of the Gospel - do you respond with I would hope that you are humble enough to put no faith in yourself........and at least a little in God!?? Do you rework this into a kind of “its all about Paul’s confidence in himself” story? Why not accept it as the faithful view of the saints of God – just as Paul presents it??

If you see yourself needing to “gloss over” the details of Phil 3 or 1Cor 9 and you if you feel the need to respond to them as “inconvenient test” as you divert attention away from these direct challenges to OSAS and towards some less problematic texts - then so can we.

 

Only - in "this life" since this text says nothing about "Dying and then getting less reward" --

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Salvation IS the issue in the case of the Gospel of the Kingdom -- there is ONLY ONE GOSPEL!

You have fully explained your motive to eisegeted scripture. Your argument is that to ACCEPT it as it reads would be to deny OSAS so you must "invent division" and in fact "another gospel" where no such division exists in the text.

Matt 24 "THIS Gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in all the world"
GAl 1:6-11 "THERE IS ONLY ONE Gospel"

By denying that your view of "salvation" is in fact that same thing as the "Gospel of the Kingdom" you fully admit that you are preaching "Another Gospel" when it comes to salvation. So far no one in your camp has answered that point.

But I will credit you with admitting to "the obvious" when you point out that if you do not reject, divide and eisegete the text as you do - then you end up with a Bible that fully debunks OSAS.

Nothing could be more glaring, more plain, more self explanatory than that -- your point is supported in almost every text given on this thread so far.

Luke 18



The Rich Young Ruler


18 A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
20"You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
21And he said, "All these things I have kept from my youth."
22When Jesus heard this, He said to him, "One thing you still lack; sell all that you possess and distribute it to the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."
23But when he had heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich.
24And Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!
25"For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
26They who heard it said, "Then who can be saved?"
27But He said, "The things that are impossible with people are possible with God."
28Peter said, "Behold, we have left our own homes and followed You."
29And He said to them, "Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God,
30who will not receive many times as much at this time and in the age to come, eternal life."


Notice that the context is what is needed to "Inherit Eternal Life" the questioner does not say "I am looking for Eternal-life version-A not Eternal Life Version-B" -- no such division in the Gospel is seen in all of scripture.

And the other point is that Christ UPHOLDS the Law of God as Paul predicts our faith "ESTABLISHES the Law of God" Rom 3:31.

All of this is just "So much Bible to be ignored" by those who reject its teaching.

In Christ,

Bob

 

It is time for this thread to be closed as it is gone well past 30 pages.