Choice Or Grace?

Not so much to scare people...but we do need to preach and remind people that there IS a hell.

 

and if they don't accept God's grace(His Son) then they will perish.

 

Why not? Why can't God in His Sovereignty decide to freely offer a gift (salvation) to all knowing that some will in fact choose to reject it?

 

Brother Glen, what exactly do you do with Romans 10:9-17?

It seems Paul disagrees with your conclusion.

 

Well, I disagree with you. Christ dying for the sins of the world is not in vain if God has determined that there is great value (indeed, agape) and glory in making atonement possible for the whole world, even for those that would spurn it.

 

It is a choice, and it is grace. They are not mutually exclusive.

The Holy Spirit does the calling and the saving, we are to do the witnessing and the preaching.

Look at it this way...God has all knowledge, and the past, present, and future are the same to Him. Nothing that happens surprises God, because He already knows. God already knew who would, and would not, accept His offer of forgiveness and redemption. But the catch is that God plays His cards close to His vest...He doesn't tell us who will or won't be saved. We are to witness and preach to each and every person in hopes of reaching one who will choose to accept.

When a person chooses to accept Jesus Christ, it is the Holy Spirit at work, not our preaching "hellfire so hot you could feel it". Any conversion under those circumstances is open for question. But I have seen people saved when hell was preached, when grace was preached, when creation was preached, when the fall of Jerico was preached. The message wasn't what drew them and saved them. It was just a vehicle that God used to let the Spirit do His work in their hearts.

So, it is a choice, it is grace, it is predestination, it is free will. It is the work of God, and I stand in awe.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Preach it Bro. Glen!

A good example (maybe that's why he dwells on grace so much) is Paul himself; on his way to Damascus to imprison, beat, possibly even kill as many Christians as he can find, when he is surrounded, subdued, and overcome by God's prevenient, irresistable grace as administered by The Christ Himself! Paul could no more outrun God's calling than a man stranded on a South Pacific atol can escape a tidal wave. When God comes after someone, there's no where to run or hide. I am living proof!

 

The thought of God's eternal judgement ought to get anyone's attention. But also the infinite magnitude of God's love ought to also grab our attention.

 

C'mon Glen, you should know better.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (FWV) "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that faith is of yourselves of your own free will; not the gift of God, lest anyone should be denied the ability to boast."

(FWV = Free Will Version)

 

I don't understand this confusion. If the offer isn't genuine (choice) and it isn't of grace (undeserved by me) then Christianity is just one big colossal joke and I would have nothing to do with it.

 

I did not read all the posts so if this is a duplicate please forgive.
"Therefor knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men."
Thanks ------Bart

P.S. Col 1 "Whom we preach warning every man...."

 

Good word, Trotter.

 

I wonder why this discussion seems to be endless where ever you go?????
why did Jesus ask us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to EVERY creature ?
Why did the apostle Paul make all those missionary journeys preaching and teaching and persuading men to REPENT and be SAVED ??????????
A friend of mine was working at a summer camp in PEI,Can a few years back and he noticed that a girl would cry almost uncontrollably at the bond fire every night when salvation was offered.He asked whats her problem and was told she was told by her family and church she was not one of the elect.He said elect or not she got saved that night.
If the gospel is not for the WHOLE world why were we given the great commission ??????
Good day fr NB ER

 

Here's the best way I know how to answer the objections with respect to preaching, the great commission, etc. If it works for you, great, if not, that's okay, too.

First, let's assume the position of election is true. Let's assume that man cannot possibly of his own free will change his self-centered and sinful inclination and therefore would never want to repent and put his faith in Jesus. The fact that man cannot, of his own free will, change his inclination is effectively saying the same as he cannot choose to put his faith in Jesus. It is impossible, because man will not choose something he is inclined NOT to choose. God must first change his heart, after which it is impossible for him not to want to choose to put his faith in Jesus.

To repeat, let's assume ALL of the above is true.

Now -- is the following not ALSO true?

1. People are sinners and should repent.
2. If you don't repent you will not be saved.
3. If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
4. Whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.
5. If you don't believe, you are going to perish.

So when people preach these things, why are they any less true if God has elected to make the message effective unto salvation for only SOME of those who hear it? Aren't all the above statements true for all, regardless? Yet why should one marvel at the fact that only those who God has appointed to eternal life are moved by the message?

Acts 13:48 "When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed."

------------

On a more personal note...

I notice that Acts 13:49 does NOT say "But since some did not believe, the apostles stayed there several years and preached and preached, warning them over and over again of the dangers of hell in order to win their stubborn souls for Christ."

I have nothing against dogged persistence in preaching, in the hopes that those who vehemently reject Christ will repent. I believe that if the Spirit moves someone to do that, there must be a good reason for it.

But I would point out two things:

1. The language of Acts 13:48 sounds very matter-of-fact, at least to me. The most comfortable follow-up would almost be, "And those who were not appointed for eternal life didn't believe. And that's the name of that tune."

2. Is it not ironic that this "dogged persistence" is an effort to change the hearts (the inclination) of those to whom one preaches? We're not giving them a choice to make of their own free will. We're desperately trying to persuade them -- to change their inclinations so that they will change the desires of their heart and WANT to make the RIGHT choice.

So if we (the editorial we) believe we should spend the time and effort to change the hearts of listeners, why do we object to the idea that God must first change our hearts (our inclination) before it is possible for us to believe in Jesus?

That leads to the next question. If we believe we have been successful in persuading someone -- successfull in changing his/her heart or inclination -- to whom do we REALLY assign the credit for that change? I'm not asking who you verbalize as deserving the credit, but to whom you REALLY assign most of the credit. After all, if "salvation by free will choice" is true, and God does not have to change the inclination of the heart, then YOU (the editorial you) did most of the hard work in convincing that person to change his/her heart.

That's why I believe "salvation by free will choice" is all about man's pride, not about God, and I believe it is pride both from the perspective of the person who believes he is saved by choice, and the person who preaches to those he wants to be saved by choice.

 

AMEN! Salvation is all of God.

"So then it is neither him that runs or he that wills, but God..."

Romans 9:16