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Featured Chosen to Eternal Life? [Acts 13:48]

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Jul 17, 2012.

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  1. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    The passive participle can be confused with a middle, but in the case of Acts 13:48, the construct is a periphrastic construction (ἦσαν τεταγμένοι). In other words, certain auxiliary words can clarify and reinforce the participle to distinguish it from the middle--as a pluperfect.
     
  2. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    As many what? Individuals or people groups? Calvinists are known for pointing to the fact that scripture often refers to individuals from all nations, rather than 'all.' Well, the same type of application can be made here.

    You have to remember that the word "Gentiles" means 'the non-Jewish nations.' And the big question of that day was not if God had chosen to save this individual or that individual, the question was wether God had chosen to save that nation or this nation, for up to that point in history, it was believed that God had only chosen the nation of Israel.

    So, how did the people know what nations were chosen? By their faith. If a Philistine or a Samaritan came to faith that was proof that God had appointed them unto salvation. He had granted them entrance, or grafted them in to the tree (Rm 11).
     
  3. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    If only I understood the Greek!
     
  4. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Were there "representatives" from all Gentile nations present there for your "people group" application to work?

    There is a clear meaning in the wording there: "As many as were ordained... believed." It is saying that, at that moment, the same exact set of those who "were ordained" were the same exact set who "believed."

    The word τεταγμένοι is distinguishable from the middle voice because it is reinforced as a pluperfect through the auxiliary ἦσαν, which is an imperfect "was." The tense of this periphrastic construction makes it clear that the action happened before the events being discussed in the narrative. It is also tensed before the aorist ἐπίστευσαν ("believed").

    The lexical order of the words in this verse is:
    and [they] believed--as many as (or the same ones that) were ordained/appointed/disposed to life eternal.

    Try as you might, there is no escaping the following observations:
    1. ἦσαν τεταγμένοι is a periphrastic construction that disallows the notion of a middle voice. It strongly emphasizes a passive participle.
    2. "As many as" ties the set of individuals ordained to the set of individuals who believed at this point in time; thus, their ordination--as individuals--according to the tense of the periphrastic construction was before they even heard the message.
    3. The lexical order of the words of this independent clause lists "believed," then the periphrastic construction as a modifer, providing a commentary that emphasizes the causal relationship between the "ordination" to eternal life and the resultant "believing."
     
  5. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Well, I'm not a Greek scholar, but I am a grammar geek and get a steady diet of James White. :D
     
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Some of you folks understand the Greek. That is fine; I wish I did. I can use a lexicon to find how a Greek or Hebrew word is translated in the Bible but that is the extent of my linguistic ability as far as Greek is concerned. What I can do is compare various translations. But! I must then trust that the translators are both competent and honest! I use the KJV primarily but I also checked Acts 13:48 in a number of other translations [and one concise paraphrase].

    KJV: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


    ASV: And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


    GLT: And hearing, the nations rejoiced and glorified the Word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


    KJ21: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the Word of the Lord; and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


    MKJV: And hearing, the nations rejoiced and glorified the Word of the Lord. And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.


    NASB95: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


    NASB: And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


    NIV: When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honoured the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.


    NKJV: Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.


    YLT: And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe--as many as were appointed to life age-during;


    ESV: And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


    Berk: When they heard this, the Gentiles were glad; they eulogized the Lord’s message and believed - as many as were appointed for eternal life.


    There are others I could check but those were sufficient for me! All these versions say ordained or appointed to eternal life. I also looked at Gill and Spurgeon to see if they understood this Scripture as I do.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Basically, there was a group of peoples within a larger group that God had "marked out' to be saved beforehand, and once they heard the message, they were saved by grace of God!

    God marked them out and determined before they heard the message that those were the ones to get saved by the message!
     
  8. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    That is beside the point being made. Luke is simply saying that they are proving that they (their people) have been appointed for eternal life...that God has, from the beginning, chosen to 'graft in' other nations besides Israel. They prove that by their faith.

    I appreciate the greek explanations, I really do. I studied the language for several years, and still have much to learn. But when I travelled overseas to the Holy Land I spoke with some very intelligent believers who actually speak and write in Greek about this and other verses. They literally laughed out loud at the Cal/Arm controversy. They find it superfluous and tedious. They said, 'we don't think in those terms,' and went on to explain how the 'Western' culture is too ego centric and thinks everything is about them individually. I was a bit offended at first, as I was a Calvinist at the time, but after much maturing and study, I think he is exactly right.

    Leo Garrett, in his well known Systematic Theology, wrote this on the subject, and I think explains the issue quite well:

    "From Augustine of Hippo to the twentieth century, Western Christianity has tended to interpret the doctrine of election from the perspective of and with regard to individual human beings. During those same centuries the doctrine has been far less emphasized and seldom ever controversial in Eastern Orthodoxy. Is it possible that Augustine and later Calvin, with the help of many others, contributed to a hyper individualization of this doctrine that was hardly warranted by Romans 9-11, Eph. 1, and I Peter 2? Is it not true that the major emphasis in both testaments falls upon an elect people -- Israel (OT) and disciples or church (NT)?"
     
  9. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    There is truth in what you say here, but I do not believe God "passes over" some folks. I believe God knows who will believe, thus Paul could say he was separated from the womb to preach to the heathen.

    Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
    16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

    I believe God knew Paul would not be an ordinary believer. Yes, the Lord himself had to appear to Paul before he believed, but once he did, he was completely "sold out" to Jesus like no other man in history. Paul was absolutely willing to give his life to spread the gospel. No man worked harder or suffered as much as Paul to spread the gospel.

    I personally believe God wants all persons to believe and trust Jesus, and no man is excluded. Nevertheless, I also believe God knows who will believe and places them in the right place at the right time to hear the gospel.

    And this is what Acts 13:48 is saying, those who were ordained to eternal life believed. But it does not say God compelled or forced them to believe.
     
  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    No doctrtine stands on one witness. Show scripture to prove your point is true, sure, but show more than one witness. One witness just doesn't stand by it's self. Not only that there is no chosen in this verse.
    MB
     
    #30 MB, Jul 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2012
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    just saying that the way the Greek text is constructed, words that were inspired to be written down there...

    It does indicate that it was the definie will of God that a specific group would be the ones who heard the message to be saved by it by God!
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    This doctrine and verse stands as a clear light on God's election of individuals to salvation. There is no escape or way out of this verse as well as many others.
    Some go out of the way to try and isolate and pervert the meanings.It would be better if we believe God as he has revealed His truth.
    As a matter of fact, Jesus delared that His sheep would hear His voice:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

    Archangel,OR, and aresman...good posting and holding the word faithfully.
     
  13. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    I agree, but this does not prove or even imply Irresistible Grace. It simply says those persons whom God ordained to eternal life believed. It doesn't refute IG as well, this verse is silent about WHY these persons believed.

    But many Calvinists insert their own presupposition here, and say it proves IG when it does not.
     
  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists understand there are no contradictions in scripture. they know what God says about regeneration and conversion, being the work of the Spirit...not the flesh. This verse blends into all the other verses dealing with the teaching...better than a Bob Ross painting blends all the colors together.
     
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Well that in all honesty comes from something we ALL do, that is "opining".
     
  16. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    I do appreciate your response and input and do not pejoratively dismiss you. Yes, obviously, I will "default" to those who "see things" in the way I do scripturally, but we ALL do that don't we. EVERYONE likes to think that we (ourselves) take the most appropriate (correct) interpretive roads in scripture. Unfortunately, I do not have the time (or the calling) to be a scholar of biblical languages, so yes, I must trust others to that calling and task. My calling in life is to be a positive influence and model for young college students and perhaps teach them a little bit of mathematics along the way. But I do thank you.
     
  17. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Well, I have no idea what YOU mean by regeneration. The word regeneration means to be made alive AGAIN. No one can be spiritually alive until all their sins are forgiven, thus no one can be regenerated until they first believe.

    By the way, the word regeneration refutes Total Depravity. If you are born dead in sin, then you would not be alive AGAIN, because you were never alive to begin with.

    If Original Sin were true, then it should be said a man is generated, not REgenerated. Words have meaning.
     
  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :laugh::laugh::laugh: maybe one day you will go back and read the many responses you have been given and ignore:thumbs:
     
  19. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    You really need to read the passage until you understand what "ordained or appointed to eternal life" means! God does the ordaining or appointing.

    As for other witnesses, are you questioning the Holy Spirit. What other witness is needed. If you are looking for other Scripture then ask. But you already know where they are.
     
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Yet another thread where the Calvinist misrepresentation of a verse is presented yet again. The word translated appointed or ordained means an arrangement by mutual consent. It is not the word used for a unilateral assignment. Thus the many that were appointed were those who took Paul's direction, not God's assignment, and His direction was whoever believes in Him shall not perish. So those that took that direction believed.

    All this effort to make this seem like something only a person well studied in Greek could comprehend is simply an effort to disenfranchise opponents of false doctrine.
     
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