Christ death makes them Perfect He died for !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Heb 10:14

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    Christ's sacrifice or offering makes them He was offered in behalf of Perfect ! Now under the Old Covenant, the types and shadows, those offerings could not make the people perfect, for they must be offered annually because of this defect, for with them there was a remembering of sin year after year, for they could not take away sin so we read Heb 10:1-4

    For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

    However this is in strike contrast to the once and forever sacrifice or offering of the Lamb of God, that took away all the sins of the people He was Offered in behalf of Jn 1:29

    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    Yes, even a world of people. This People's sins are remembered no more Heb 8:12. The People are made perfect in contrast to not being made perfect in Heb 10:1 !
     
  2. savedbymercy

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    It makes them Perfect ! 2

    Now who made the Offering or Offerings in behalf of the People ? Was it the People themselves ? No, it was not, but the Representative of the People, the High Priest. The shadowy and temporal results of that Covenant was provided solely by the Work of the High Priest, and the benefits of it were not a offering to the people to accept or reject with their so called freewill. No but it was the work of the High priest only that was accepted of God to bring about the results, though it needed to be done annually; Whereas by the One Sacrifice of Christ, who is both the High Priest of the People [Covenant People] as well as the offering [Gift] itself, does produce the permanent effects that the virtue of His Blood gives birth to , and it is not up to the people to either accept it or reject it, but it will just bring about the perfecting consequences for each of them, of the Covenant People !
     
  3. The Biblicist

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    Again, note that "perfected" is found in the perfect tense but "sanctified" is found in the present tense. The former is the work of the Son while the latter is the work of the Holy Spirit. Those perfected by the work of the Son are those being sanctified by the work of the Holy Spirit. The first is the work of the Son making the provision for the elect while the latter is the work of the Holy Spirit applying that provision to the elect.

    The work of Christ is worthless apart from the work of the Holy Spirit. You attempt to divide the covenant persons and their works from each other and isolate each one as though their component part fulfilled the entire covenant and that is simply a lie. The only ones perfected by the work of Christ are those being sanctified by the Spirit o f God. Without the sanctifying work of the Spirit of God the perfecting work of Christ is worthless as neither stand alone but are equally necessary for salvation.
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    Correct, the Perfect Tense gives being to the present tense ! In other words, those being sanctified is the result and fruit of the being made perfect.

    So if one never receives the New Birth, then Christ did not die for them !
     
  5. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    You have uttered that Blasphemy before. Christ's death is never worthless, the Holy Spirit applies the Worth of Christ's Death to those He died for. He, the Holy Spirit is Christ continuing His Work as Saviour.

    Now before the Holy Spirit applies the Work of Christ, Christ's death alone hath perfected them, sanctified them, Justifed them.

    Heb 10:10 says this

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    This is before the Holy Spirit applies the benefits of His Death, so again, you blaspheme Christ's death !
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    The perfect tense speaks of a completed action in the past that continues as a completed action in the present. In other words, the work of Christ has been finished and presently continues as finished.

    However, the latter part of the verse speaks of the unfinished work of the Holy Spirit based upon the finished work of Christ.

    There is no value in the finished work of Christ apart from the Father's specific design for that work to be for the elect. Otherwise, it would be a meaningless finished work without any design whatsoever. Hence, the finished work of Christ is meaningless apart from the Father's covenant committment.

    The same is true in regard to the Spirits covenant committment. Apart from the Spirit's covenant work the Father's design would be meaningless as much as the Son's finished work as the Son's finished work is INSEPARABLE from both the Father's and Spirit's covenant works.

    No single Person of the Everlasting Covenant stands alone or can be isolated from the Other and neither can their works.

    Application of the Father's design and the Son's finished work is RESTRICTED to the Covenant Work of the Holy Spirit, which without, there is no salvation at all for any of the elect. Until the Holy Spirit actually applies the Father's design and the Son's finished work NO ELECT IS SAVED - period!

    The Father's work did not save anyone. The Son's work did not save anyone. The Spirit's work did not save anyone. Salvation is a TRIUNE work inseperably connected and incapable of salvation when any Person of the Trinity and their particular work is isolated and separated from the Other Person's of the Trinity and their works.

    The Father PURPOSED salvation but it took the work of the Son and the work of the Holy Spirit to FULFIL that purpose - Isa. 46:11

    The Son PROVIDED a finished redemption but it took the work of the Father to purpose its specific application and the work of the Spirit to apply and obtain what was purposed and redeemed.

    In regard to the elect, they were not saved in eternity, nor at the cross but at the point the purpose and provision was applied to them in time and space.
     
  7. Yeshua1

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    Unless the person receives jesus by faith, his death does NOT avail anyone!

    thankfully, his death DOES indeed save the redeemed, as they WILL come to place faith in him!
     
  8. savedbymercy

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    the bib

    I know what the perfect tense means. The Elect have been perfected by His Offering. By this, they shall have all Spiriual Blessings bestowed or communicated to them. But even before that, in God's perspective, they are perfect in Christ, this even while they are dead in sin as other men !
     
  9. 33ad

    33ad
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    I agree the sacrifice is made one time on the cross, but since god is outside of time it is eternal until he comes again. In this time he intercedes in the sacrement of the Eucharist


    Hebrews 7:25
    Douay-Rheims 1601
    25*Whereby he is able also to save for ever them that come to God by him; always living to make intercession for us.


    Hebrews is hard for the average American to understand I took a John MacArthur bible study and they skipped over this verse
    Put on your 2000 year old Jewish glasses
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    33 ad



    False teaching !
     
  11. savedbymercy

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    Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.



    Jn 1:29

    29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    This means Two things, that the sins of the world in question here, and the people who comprise it, these all [sins] had been charged to Christ's account, and secondly, that He hath taken them away as Per Dan 9:24

    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    This means the full and complete discharge of them. These sins can never again be brought up for Judgment no more as those which were typified by the scapegoat, who bore away the sins of the people into the wilderness of forgetfulness Lev 16:21-22

    21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

    22 And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.

    Jer 50:20

    In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

    Ps 103:12

    12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

    The word removed means:

    to be or become far, be or become distant, be removed, go far away

    a) (Qal) to be far, be distant

    b) (Piel) to send far away, extend

    c) (Hiphil)

    1) to make or exhibit distance, be gone far

    2) to remove, put far away

    This is the Ideal that John 1:29 conveys regarding all the sins of those Christ died for as the Lamb of God !

    And Christ's Resurrection from the dead gives declaration that all those [a world of people] who had their iniquities laid upon Him for the carrying out of due Justice for them, that they are Justified in the court of God's Law and Justice ! This is so even though this declaration of their Justification [Rom 4:25] is unknown to them, and yet to pass upon their consciousness !
     
  12. 33ad

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    Saved by mercy

    Are you teaching infallibly? (acts 15:7)
    Have you been appointed by the apostles (acts1)

    Have the laying of hands been laid upon you which Jesus laid upon the apostles
    As a catholic priest or orthodox priest has had
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    I am teaching the Bible, so deal with the facts I presented in post 11, if not move on !
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    When and HOW does God apply that towards them though?

    When they place faith in jesus and get born again!
     

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