Christian Debate Forums

Discussion in 'Politics' started by hillclimber1, Sep 11, 2007.

  1. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1
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    IMO: I don't think this forum is a reflection the Christian community's world views. Posters to this group, or many of the most vocal, reflect the "world" view with a non Christian outlook. That's just the way I see it, and it's frustrating.

    I came here with great expectations, only to be slowly but steadily disillusioned at the vehemence with which many folks invoking the name of Jesus, so greedily delight in unwholesome attacks on our President at war, and this nation in general. And they willingly join themselves to ideas and designs that are geared to tear America apart.

    We are facing a religious war with far reaching consequences, beyond anything before, for our very existence, yet we won't support a capable candidate who will defend us because he has been married more than once, or won't take a stand against abortion, or one of many other issues. Instead they choose to draw as many votes as possible into a completely impotent third party, in effect ceding the election to the Democrats, who's party has been captured by radical socialists. They will lead us toward total bondage, such as Europe is approaching.

    America has many faults, but it is still the greatest nation the world has ever seen, in every conceivable measure. But the Body of Christ is loosing its battle at being the restrainer of evil, and evil is rising. The "Christian Debates Forum" should be renamed. my 2 cents.
     
  2. BobRyan

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    If voting becomes just a choice "between the lesser of two morally corrupt evils" then you have a point. It would present so much conflicting challenges for conscientious christians that voting in favor of the lesser of the two evils would become harder and harder over time.

    I also agree that when we vote for president we are not electing a pastor. But they do have to be someone of strong moral conviction that will stand for their beliefs EVEN though the liberal elite will rage against them and threaten them with being tossed out of office for standing up for morally correct positions.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. steaver

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    Brother, I find it appallng that anyone who claims the name of Jesus would vote for a pro-murder candidate and I whole heartedly believe they will be shown it was an evil deed while done in the body at the JSOC.

    We are ambassadors for Christ and who we vote for should be a man who #1 is a professing Christian and #2 shows fruits of this profession. Being pro-murder is not one of those fruits.

    Lesser of two evils voting is still an abomination before our Lord. Either the candidate is biblically moral or he is not getting my vote. I will do a write in. And one can cry all day long that this is just wasting your vote or allowing the Democrats to take over and you know what? I DON"T CARE! I will vote as Jesus would and I will let God sort out who He wants to be President, but the blood of babies will not be upon my hands by my vote.

    God Bless! :thumbs:
     
  4. hillclimber1

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    In my Pollyanna moments, I might agree, so: We must not vote. NO candidate or anyone else is biblically moral. Only Christ..... If we choose to vote, in this Democratic system, we always choose the candidate that closest fits our value system, and with him come his warts.
     
  5. Andre

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    I am going to suggest that this statement is not correct. Please identify the measures that you think are relevant. I am willing to bet that, at least in a number of quantifiable measures, the US will not be at the top of the list. And I would hasten to suggest that "being powerful" is not really a measure of greatness. I am not saying that the US is "bad" - I am merely questioning what I think is a dubious claim about it "being the greatest nation the world has ever seen, in every conceivable measure".
     
  6. hillclimber1

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    I can't think of any major issue that another country has an advantage. We, financially and spiritually are the caregivers of the world, in spite of our shortcomings.
     
  7. hillclimber1

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    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that America has been/is being wrongly painted as an evil entity, by many all over the world, and at home, and it is not a fair characterization. This push has been instigated by radicals abroad, and sadly, political operatives at home.
     
  8. DHK

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    IMO, you are posting this thread in the wrong forum. It sounds more political to me.
     
  9. Andre

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    Fair enough. This is not the same as your earlier much stronger claim. Thanks for clarifying.
     
  10. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Andre:

    Let me turn your question around if you will. In which quantifiable measures would the United States not be at the top?

    The United States feeds the world, protects the world, and is, at this time the center of the proclamation of the Gospel.

    1. What nation provides more help for disaster relief than the United States?
    2. What nation provides more food in times of famine than the United States?
    3. What other nation has provided as many soldiers to put themselves at risk to secure the basic civil rights of people throughout the world?
    4. Has any other nation done this besides the United States without looking for financial reward?
    5. What nation sends out more missionaries than the United States?
    6. Will any other nations stand against Islamic Terrorists if we don’t?
    7. What nation develops more new medications and treatments than the United States?
    8. What nation spends more on treating Aids patients and other sick people throughout the world?
    9. Which other nations have the problems of the world’s poor wanting to come to them like the United States does?
    10. Do other nations have programs like the Peace Corps to provide humanitarian service to other countries?

    I am not saying that the US is ‘good’ and the rest of the world is ‘bad.’ There are plenty of other people and nations doing good things. But because of God’s blessings and our economic prosperity (brought about by our freedom) the US can and does do more. What makes the United States even more impressive to me is that most of our humanitarian aid to the world comes directly from our people, not from our government.

    I know full and well that our country will not endure forever and will eventually fall as every other ‘great’ nation of the world has. One hundred years ago most of what I said about the United States was true of Great Britain. As a recovering political junkie I have to at times remind myself that my Father's kingdom is not of this world.
     
  11. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    hillclimber:

    I understand what you mean but remember that everyone who cries "Lord, Lord," does not really know our saviour. There are some who think they are christians but are not and there are others who know they are wolves in sheep's clothing sowing discord within the church.

    That being said one of the best things about BB to me is the variety of Christians present. Remember that there are sincere believing brothers and sisters in Christ with a wide variety of political and social views. I disagree with a great many of them on a regular basis. But although we disagree on the direction of our nation, the role of our governement, the rights of individuals, and our role within the world we also share a belief in Christ that makes us family even in our disagreement.

    Now I can fight with my brother with a vengence. But wait until somebody else lays a hand on him. Even those people on this board that I have argued with over the years, people I oppose on literally every political issue. I still treasure their friendship and prayers in my times of need.
     
  12. NiteShift

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    Exactly right.
     
  13. steaver

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    I would disagree. I think people mix apples with oranges when they say that if one is not perfect like Christ then they are biblically immoral.

    We are called by God to lead biblically moral lives. This does not mean that making mistakes disqualifies a person as being seen as biblically righteous. The Word of God allows for our imperfections.

    But when you have a person or candidate who claims the name of Christ supporting such ungodly acts like abortions and homosexuallity they are outright IMMORAL and if we vote for them we are just the same for by our vote we are saying we want this immoral person to represent me in my government.

    This isn't about mistakes they make in their lives. Mistakes can be repented of and forgiven. This is about the outright, in your face Jesus, siding with the sinful willful acts that the scriptures are very clear should not be done. This isn't a "grey" area needing deep discernment. This isn't a issue that has two sides like how much tax to charge the people. Or how many missles should we build, or where should we spend the money.

    From what I know of the scriptures, any professing Christian who supports abortion or supports anyone else who supports abortion is either plum-dumb ignorant of God's Word or they aren't truly a Christian at all and need re-born.

    Abortion is just to obviously murder and anyone with murder in their hearts is not a Christian according to God's Word. Remember, Pilate did not do the actual murder of the innocent Jesus, but he consented to it and allowed it to happen. Was Pilate guilty just the same? Of course, And so are we who vote for any candidate who openly supports the right of a woman to murder her unborn child.

    God Bless! :thumbs:
     
  14. NiteShift

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    Well, as long as the Supreme Court upholds Roe vs Wade, abortion will continue, no matter what a candidate may say during campaign season. And it is much more likely that a Republican will appoint conservative judges. Nothing is certain, but we know for sure what Hillary and Obama think about the 'right to choose'. Wasting a vote is still wasting a vote.
     
  15. saturneptune

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    Voting for an evil candidate is voting for an evil candidate, and voting for a less evil candidate is pure folly and lets the world see that we are willing to lower our standards and compromise Biblical principles. George Bush had SIX years of a Republican Congress, and a few years of a conservative Supreme Court to get rid of Roe vs Wade. It seems that is only a slogan around election time. It is called pandering for Christian votes.

    America is the best nation on earth. God has blessed us like no other nation in history. We help the rest of the world. We defend freedom and human rights. Hilltopper is right, we have given and given, only to receive ridicule, from both other countries and the worthless collection of Democrats we have.

    However, I cannot put George Bush in the same bundle as the greatness of the USA. I voted for him twice, and regret it to this day. There is nothing to be gained by voting for pseudo-conservative. The budget is out of control, Social Security and Medicare were not taken care of, the borders are out of control, leadership is nonexistant in the White House, and Mr. Bush does not have a clue. Our troops are doing a wonderful job. They deserve competent leadership. If you are going to fight a war, you fight to win, or dont bother. There is no half way measures. Fight, win, and get out. American blood is worth more than Mr Bush's one liners.

    So how are the Republicans any better than the Democrats? Ask Mr. Craig and Mr. Vitter. In a way, it is much more disquisting. Here is Mr. Craig, pounding the podium, morality, family values, no gay rights, it almost makes one puke.

    What about 2008? Are you going to stand up for what is right if Giuliani runs against Clinton and find another candidate who is pro life, or are you going to vote for abortionist A to keep abortionist B from winning? Not me, no pro abortion candidates or fake conservatives ever again.
     
  16. saturneptune

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    Voting for an evil candidate is voting for an evil candidate, and voting for a less evil candidate is pure folly and lets the world see that we are willing to lower our standards and compromise Biblical principles. George Bush had SIX years of a Republican Congress, and a few years of a conservative Supreme Court to get rid of Roe vs Wade. It seems that is only a slogan around election time. It is called pandering for Christian votes.

    America is the best nation on earth. God has blessed us like no other nation in history. We help the rest of the world. We defend freedom and human rights. Hilltopper is right, we have given and given, only to receive ridicule, from both other countries and the worthless collection of Democrats we have.

    However, I cannot put George Bush in the same bundle as the greatness of the USA. I voted for him twice, and regret it to this day. There is nothing to be gained by voting for pseudo-conservative. The budget is out of control, Social Security and Medicare were not taken care of, the borders are out of control, leadership is nonexistant in the White House, and Mr. Bush does not have a clue. Our troops are doing a wonderful job. They deserve competent leadership. If you are going to fight a war, you fight to win, or dont bother. There is no half way measures. Fight, win, and get out. American blood is worth more than Mr Bush's one liners.

    So how are the Republicans any better than the Democrats? Ask Mr. Craig and Mr. Vitter. In a way, it is much more disquisting. Here is Mr. Craig, pounding the podium, morality, family values, no gay rights, it almost makes one puke.

    What about 2008? Are you going to stand up for what is right if Giuliani runs against Clinton and find another candidate who is pro life, or are you going to vote for abortionist A to keep abortionist B from winning? Not me, no pro abortion candidates or fake conservatives ever again.
     
  17. saturneptune

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    double post
     
  18. NiteShift

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    lol...well I guess you really mean it since you posted it 3 times!

    S-N, I hear what you're saying, and I've read enough of your posts to know that you're sour on all the republicans. Fact is, I'm not registered republican, but usually vote for them. You vote your conscience and I'll do the same.
     
  19. hillclimber1

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    Wow, thank you for that, it's added a perspective I've neglected.
     
  20. KenH

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    I hope you are feeling better now after getting that off your chest.

    Just remember to:

    "Keep on the sunny side, always on the sunny side,
    Keep on the sunny side of life,
    It will help us ev'ry day, it will brighten all the way,
    If we'll keep on the sunny side of life." (Lyrics by A.P. Carter and Gary Garrett)

    :jesus: :godisgood:

     
    #20 KenH, Sep 13, 2007
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2007

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