Christian first then ?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by C.S. Murphy, Sep 12, 2002.

  1. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy
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    Today while Ministering at a Nursing home a Catholic Priest intoduced himself by saying I am a catholic but I am a christian first. To me that does not make their teaching acceptable. What do you think? Also when someone begins by making this statement don't you think they are usually trying to make the point that we are all just working together, and that we should accept each others views right or wrong?
    Murph
     
  2. BrianT

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    It doesn't sound like he was trying to make their teaching acceptable. He was telling you that being "Christian" is more important to him than being "Catholic".

    Yes, perhaps he says that to remind himself and others that there is one body of believers and they can work together. But I see nothing about "accepting each other's views right or wrong" in his words or approach. In fact, because I doubt he would "accept Baptist views right or wrong", it sounds like his thinking was that you could work together *despite* not accepting each other's views. And if so, I say a hearty "amen" to that Catholic Priest, and then I put on my flame-retardant underwear because I probably made a bunch of fundamentalists upset. [​IMG]
     
  3. Scott J

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    Whether his words were true or not depends on how you define "Christian." A very few Catholics have been saved according to the Bible's teachings. Most have not.
    No. They have a works based salvation, a system by which one supposedly pay's for their own sins, and substitute the Church as the means of salvation.
    More than likely. Many Catholics still believe that we should "come home" to the Church. Organizations like Promise Keepers are actively working to blur doctrinal distinctions in favor of fellowship.

    [ September 12, 2002, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Scott J ]
     
  4. Scott J

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    Not upsetting for me. Disappointing though. I would have expected you to be totally opposed to any religion that teaches salvation by means other than "grace through faith." Effectively, the Catholic church insulates unbelievers from the gospel with a pseudo-Christian religion that leads them to hell.
     
  5. GloryBound

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    RUN BrianT RUN.....that WON'T save you!!!
    Ohhhhhh this is going to be more exciting than the Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield fight......popping my popcorn right now before it gets bloody!!! [​IMG]

    ~~GloryBound [​IMG]
     
  6. C.S. Murphy

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    Whether his words were true or not depends on how you define "Christian." A very few Catholics have been saved according to the Bible's teachings. Most have not.
    No. They have a works based salvation, a system by which one supposedly pay's for their own sins, and substitute the Church as the means of salvation.
    More than likely. Many Catholics still believe that we should "come home" to the Church. Organizations like Promise Keepers are actively working to blur doctrinal distinctions in favor of fellowship.
    </font>[/QUOTE]My thoughts exactly Scott Thanks
    Murph
     
  7. Daniel David

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    You could have asked him the following:

    If you are a Christian, why are you a catholic?

    Out like catholics from the body of Christ.
     
  8. BrianT

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    Read my post again. I said nothing about accepting Catholicism, in fact my point was that Murphy and this priest could work together in the nursing home despite (and without accepting) each other's doctrine.

    Who knows, maybe a friendship would form between Murphy and this priest, a friendship that would allow for the opportunity to reach him. When we automatically put a wall between us and other people just because we disagree with them, we're not doing anybody any good.

    Besides, Catholics have the "fundamentals" covered in my opinion. They've thrown a lot more stuff on top that confuses the issue, but at the core it is still about the deity of Christ, and his death and resurrection for our redemption. When we all get to eternity, I think many Baptists will be surprised at just amazing God's grace is, because of all the Catholics that made it. ;) (now where'd I put that asbestos suit?)
     
  9. HankD

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    Dear BrianT,

    I'll be one of them (sort-of) [​IMG]

    I was saved for 2 years before I left the Church of Rome. I knew in my heart that Christ was the ONLY way to heaven. But I needed to strengthen my mind with the Word of God to have the assurance that I was not a "Judas".

    As to the priest, offer friendship but not fellowship.

    Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

    HankD
     
  10. C.S. Murphy

    C.S. Murphy
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    Brian maybe I misunderstood your first reply but your point here about them throwing alot of stuff on top of is what I am driving at. When a person adds to Christ alone are they truly saved, should we and can we weed thru all their junk and still say here it is, the gospel?
    Murph
     
  11. VoiceInTheWilderness

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    I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't like being groupped in the same body with Catholics for anything.

    As far as I am concerned, there is no way that a True Believer can STAY involved with The Catholic's.

    Yes you can start there, and yes God just might choose to save you in the midst of it, but there's no way someone can call themself a Catholic Christian!!!!!!!

    Let alone a Christian Catholic Priest. [​IMG]
     
  12. Wisdom Seeker

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    Sounds to me, like he was trying to head off any trouble at the pass. Just bare in mind... that catholics think being a catholic is the only way to be a christian. They call the Catholic church the true church... or The Church.

    I would ask him if he believes in salvation by faith alone... and let that determine if He's a Christian first.
     
  13. BrianT

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    I don't know where the line is drawn as to how much error negates the fundamentals, and I'm grateful that decision is left to God alone. I am fairly confident that I don't have a perfect understand of all doctrine, and I don't think God is going to deny me salvation for my human errors and limitations. The Catholic Priest may or may not have more errors in understanding about salvation than you do, but salvation is not based on our inerrant understanding, but on God's grace when we accept the fundamentals. I have several Catholic friends. We disagree wildly on many subjects, but I'm convinced they believe in the deity of Christ and his atoning work. I can still fellowship with them, and I might as well get used to it, for I expect to see them in eternity. [​IMG]
     
  14. VoiceInTheWilderness

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    So let me get this straight, what you're saying is that I can believe that my faith is dependant upon the faith of the church, and place my trust in that and God is not going to deny me salvation?

    According to my Bible my faith must rest in Christ alone, not the faith of the church.

    Again I will say, It's not possible to embrace both Catholisism and Christianity. :eek:
     
  15. BrianT

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    No, that's not at all what I'm saying.

    Ask a Catholic (a real one, not one in just name only) if they believe Jesus is the Son of God, and is himself God (ie. as per the Trinity). The answer will be 'yes'.

    Then ask them if they believe he died for the sins of the world, and rose again conquering death. Again the answer will be 'yes'.

    Yes, the RCC has error. There are plenty of good reasons why I am a Baptist and not a Roman Catholic. But the Baptist tendency to make salvation and Catholicism mutually exclusive, never mind the reluctance to even work together or fellowship, is wrong.
     
  16. WayneCotton

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    WOW! Now I'm beginning to remember the reasons I havent been affiliated with Fundamentalists in 15 years...I see things havent changed a bit in all that time...nothing but bickering and arguing and quenching the Spirit....whew!
     
  17. Scott J

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    BrianT, The problem I see is that the Catholics teach another way of salvation- a system of works and observances. The works of baptism, Mass, penance, confession, purgatory, church membership, etc. all contribute to salvation in their system. They do not believe in the completed work of Jesus on the cross.

    Grace in their system is not something from God but something disseminated by the Church. Of course there are many other abuses and perversions of biblical Christianity but this should be enough.

    We are told not to fellowship with those that teach another gospel... and for good reason. In this case, the priest would probably view cooperation as not only acceptance of the differences but also as an indication that we believe God accepts those differences. Worse yet, when unbelievers see a Catholic and born again Christian working together in the name of Christ confusion and misunderstanding are certain to be the result.
     
  18. BrianT

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    I'm not sure I agree with your assessment, but look at it this way: if they believe in Christ and his redemptive work, do other things negate this? For example, suppose for the sake of argument, "eternal security" is true: if I disbelieve in it, don't I get it even though I am wrong about it? Same thing here - if they believe in Christ, the rest is just mistakes.

    No, they would probably just faint at the fact that two Christians with differing viewpoints are actually focusing on what unites them instead of what divides them. [​IMG]
     
  19. Maverick

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    I agree with premise but not the conclusion. I am a Christian first and a Baptist second, but I have already been fairly clear about Catholicism and its heresy.
     
  20. Pete Richert

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    I partly agree with you BrianT. I don't think worshipping Mary, or believing in purgatory, or doing funny things with beads, or maybe even thinking that Mass is a continueing sacrifice will barr someone from heaven, but I draw the line on faith. Either you trust Jesus for your salvation or you don't trust him, and I have a hard time believing that those who preach you must earn your way to salvation and you can never know if you have it really TRUST Jesus for their salvation. Perhaps some do. Certianly a few do. Maybe this includes your friends. Its like I was sitting on a chair. If you asked me, how do you know it will hold you up, and you said, because I believe it will and I also must hold myself up with these handle bars then you would say quite rightly that I really don't believe it would hold me up. If I did, I would be just sitting there and I wouldn't feel the need to hold the handle bars, much less say I NEEDED to as well. I have met many catholics who were certainly pious, but most of them are trusting in how many times they have taken the mass along with Jesus, and I don't need to trust in anything else.
     

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