Christian Hymns and Songs

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. steaver

    steaver
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    In light of the never ending debates here over the issue of whether or not salvation is by Faith Alone or by Faith plus works, I was wondering what are some of your favorite Hymns and Songs about God's Salvation.

    There are two threads of thought on this board;

    1) Salvation is all God's Grace APART from any performance from the one who has received Grace, whether it be good or bad, whether it be before or after regeneration.

    2) Salvation is all God's Grace AFTER one has done all that they can do, which is based on performance after receiving the Holy Spirit. One must give it a good try to be holy and then God's Grace will save.

    I would like everyone in both camps to post some of their favorite Hymns and Songs which they sing in their church which glorify God's Saving Grace. Now personally, we don't have any Hymn books or Contemporary Songs in our church which sing of the person's saving performance, but I assume they are out there. The Holy Spirit has inspired some marvelous writings in this area and if this doctrine #2 is of God surely there are Hymns and Songs reflecting this.

    Blessings! :praying:

     
  2. steaver

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    :jesus::godisgood::thumbs:
     
  3. steaver

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    :jesus::godisgood::thumbs:
     
  4. steaver

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    :jesus::godisgood::thumbs:
     
  5. TrevorL

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    Greetings steaver,

    I consider “Faith Alone or by Faith plus works” are two extremes that are not Scriptural. We are saved by Faith, but this faith needs to create within us a correct, sincere, balanced, warm-hearted motivation to live the Christ-centred life. Without this response and a continual growth in these things we will be rejected at the judgement seat when Christ returns and raises the dead.

    This Sunday morning our speaker gave his message based upon the Book of Ephesians and Ephesians speaks of this response in faith. Even the frequently quoted verse on grace speaks of this response:
    Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV): 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Perhaps the best illustration is the Parable of the Sower, as this depicts the various responses to the sowing of the word of God. When the seed fell on the stony ground or amongst the thorns there was a response but the response did not last. But when the seed was sown in the good ground, then true fruit was produced.
    Luke 8:13-15 (KJV): 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection. 15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

    The Letter to the Ephesians also concludes with a similar thought, speaking of the need of a love towards Jesus and a sincere and pure heart.
    Ephesians 6:24 (KJV): Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

    Perhaps one of the hymns selected give both aspects, the Grace of God and our need to respond:
    Now thank we all our God
    With hearts and hands and voices,
    Who wondrous things hath done,
    In whom the just rejoices;
    He gracious is and true,
    From childhood doth us lead;
    On Him we place our trust,
    And hope in time of need.

    Saints come, adore the Lord,
    In worship lowly bending;
    On His most holy word,
    And on his love depending.
    O may the bounteous God
    Through all our life be near,
    With ever joyful hearts
    And blessed peace to cheer.

    Glory and praise to God,
    The Father throned in heaven,
    And to the Christ, His Son,
    Our Saviour, praise be given;
    Praise to the mighty God,
    Whose saving arm is strong,
    Hail to His promised day!
    Praise, praise with grateful song.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
     
  6. steaver

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    This view places you in the "faith plus works" camp. Anytime one gives a view which declares justification/salvation is by faith plus individual "performance" it is a "faith plus works" doctrine.

    Not sure what you are seeing in this passage, but what it reveals is the attributes of those saved by grace through faith and "not of yourselves". Once saved, the good works which God hath before ordained for His Elect will become manifest.

    This parable supports Eph2, only those who produce fruit have had the seed actually regenerate the person, born-again, good ground.

    The hymn is praising God for what He has done (performance) . I don't see the hymn giving any praise to man's performance. I see an admonition to praise Him.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    I notice that the OP is asking once again how the lost person obtains salvation. Or is the question to find songs about the saved person "obtaining salvation" as if the saved have the same view of needing to obtain salvation as the lost?
     
  8. steaver

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    Ahhhh.........actually, there is no questions asked in the OP.

    No questions asked in the OP, however, there is an implied challenge to the "saved by grace AFTER ye do all that you can" camp.

    So what hymns and songs do you like Bob that sing of God's grace after we do all we can do?

    Now we have a question.....
     
  9. BobRyan

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    The song "Amazing Grace" - for the "hour I first believed".

    "It is well with my soul" for the saved saint.

    "Are you ready for Jesus to Come" also for the saints.
     
  10. steaver

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    No sorry, I already posted "Amazing Grace" and "It is Well" for the Faith Alone camp. There is nothing in those hymns that even remotely suggest we are saved by grace AFTER we do all we can do.

    I can see why this one might have fooled you, It does warn the saint to be ready for Jesus' second coming, but sorry, not for justification. Hymns are written based upon scripture, the scripture which would match this hymn is 1Cr3 which concludes with - "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire".

    Actually, this hymn could be said to be a OSAS hymn, but that is another subject. I'm sure quite a few would be called such.

    Get online a search hymn lyrics, maybe you can find something that point towards justification by "doing all ye can do". I haven't seen any as of yet.
     
  11. BobRyan

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    The message to the lost is not "There is nothing in those hymns that even remotely suggest we are saved by grace AFTER we do all we can do."

    As we keep pointing out.

    The message to the saved is not "you must saved-er" - the message to the saved is "take up your cross and follow me" - Matt 10

    But you did not get "Are you ready for Jesus to Come".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J05GKRSihXY


    Lyrics echo the teaching of the book of first John.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #11 BobRyan, Oct 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2013
  12. steaver

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    For some odd reason you keep trying to spin the OP into a sanctification topic.

    "Are you ready for Jesus to come" is not about one's justification (whether you are saved or not) . It is about sanctification, and the song does not imply that if you are not ready you will be lost, and neither does 1John.
     
  13. BobRyan

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    For some odd reason you keep spinning sanctification into "claiming to be justified by works so you can be saved some other way than by grace through faith and that not of works"
     
  14. BobRyan

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    Christ contrasts those who are ready for the 2nd coming - vs those who are not.

    Matt 24

    42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
    43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
    44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
    45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
    46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
    47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
    48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
    49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
    50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
    51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.




    Matt 25


    25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
    2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
    3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
    4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
    5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
    6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
    7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
    8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
    9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
    10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.



    1 Thess 5
    The Day of the Lord

    5 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you.
    2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
    3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.
    4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
    5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
    6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
    7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
    8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
    9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation
    through our Lord Jesus Christ,
     
  15. steaver

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    And for some odd reason you keep pointing to sanctification passages as proof against OSAS.

    Do you really believe those following this have missed this? Your spin game isn't gaining any traction, I keep exposing it at every turn.

    You know where you got off track brother? When you hitched your wagon to E7's moroni teaching which links salvation/grace with performance.

    You know, come to think of it, I don't remember ever hearing you arguing for a distinction between justification and sanctification. In fact, all of the sanctification passages you post you use as an argument against staying saved, as in, DO this or else the grace of God gets cancelled out on you. What is this but just a parroting of the doctrine "by grace are ye saved through faith AFTER ye do all that you can do" , which is NOT Ephesian 2:8-9.

    Which one are you going with? If the latter, then you might want to reconsider hitching your wagon with E7's rhetoric, for he makes no bones about it that he believes as moroni preached on this subject.
     
  16. steaver

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    Well there you go then, you do believe one must do all they can do and then the grace of God will save them.
     
  17. BobRyan

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    I did no write those chapters of the bible. I only quoted them.

    Your argument is with the text.

    When the lost come to Christ - by grace through faith - they are born again. They become a saved saint and may freely choose to continue living that life - or return to their lost state.

    If they choose to continue in the saved state - then as 1John points out - they will have to walk as Christ walked, keep His Commandments or else (as John says) be considered a liar in their claim to know and love Christ.

    That is not my book - it is 1John 2:3-7.
     
    #17 BobRyan, Oct 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2013
  18. steaver

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    Oh brother, how many times do we need to go over this? I will say it only once more, the argument is with your application of the text, as is ANYONE's argument. Surely you understand this in a debate setting - well, you should, you have been told enough times.

    Let's see, all my sins freely pardoned, given the free gift of eternal life - or - forever tormented in the lake of fire. Hmmm...what to do what to do....I think I'll take the lake!!!!

    Naw, what you really mean is "by grace ye are saved through faith AFTER ye do all that ye can do". Your certainly not alone, hundreds of thousands Mormons believe the exact same thing.

    John points out that the born of God CANNOT practice sin, CANNOT sin.

    And yes, John says if they do sin, then it proves their claim to KNOW Jesus is a lie. If they don't KNOW Jesus, then they were NEVER born of God.

    Come on Bob! We have been over this....I explained 1John (with supporting scripture) in my other thread, and it is noted you had no rebuttal.
     
  19. TrevorL

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    Greetings again steaver,

    I appreciate your response, but praise to God is more than “Faith alone”, it is the response generated by faith.

    But the Parable of the Sower speaks of a range of people who have faith and some of these do not endure to the end result of bringing forth fruit with patience. I equate the seed on the stony ground as equivalent to “Faith alone”. Those on the stony ground for a while believe, but in a time of trial they fall away. If “Faith alone” is true it should be true for this class of believer.
    Luke 8:13-15 (KJV): 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

    Kind regards
    Trevor
     
  20. steaver

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    But surely you understand that when the Christian debates "Faith Alone" what is being discussed is the "how" one is justified before God (i.e. saved, regenerated, born again) which "Faith Alone" declares it is "by grace through faith without works (without any performance of righteousness) . So praising God does not justify anyone, it is only the evidence of Faith in Jesus Christ.

    Scripture speaks in many places of "believe", not all belief is seated in true repentance of the heart towards God. John 8 - "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed". Not all belief is salvation by regeneration. This is why many Christians become confused with the doctrine "Faith Alone" and "OSAS". By the end of John 8 these ones who said they "believed" were picking up stones to kill Jesus. 1John - "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us".
     

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