Christian Liberty

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Istherenotacause, Apr 17, 2003.

  1. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause
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    I've read much about what some refer to as legalism, also what some declare to be liberties.

    I would like for all who would reply to what they know true Christian liberty to be, not what they feel is their inalieble rights to certain "freedoms". What is it exactly we as Christians are at liberty to do, and is that liberty something the lost world cannot have part in, as long as they remain in a lost condition?

    Do we confuse "soul" liberty on the part of the whole of all men, or is there something really distinct for the Christian.

    Liberty is always associated with freedom, but is Christian liberty a freedom to do as one pleases, without any restraint other than that under penalty of law?

    Do we as Christians, spiritual Christians, and not as carnal, demand our liberty to behave in a manner contrary to what is considered the guidelines of separation from the world under the rules governing morality?

    Since liberty denotes a releasing from bondage, are we considered in bondage as we enjoy our liberty as Christians,( I know that one sounds like an oxy-moron), by not participating in certain "worldly" activities, or do we use our liberty to accuse our brethren of legalism, and being dictators, trying to lord over our lives in a sort of mind control?

    Just in my viewpoint, I believe we carelessly throw those words "legalism" and "liberty" around.
    I'm not trying to drag a dead horse or to kick a dead dog, but I sincerely believe we all need more clarity in this area of what we call Christian liberty and what the Lord would call it. We all should know that where sin abounded, grace doth much more abound, but we also are not given, by that grace, a license to sin, God forbid that we who are dead to sin, should continue any longer therein. Also I John 1:9 declares a Christian liberty that lost people cannot claim, except until they are born again, by the Spirit of grace, and adopted into the family of God.

    Oh, this is a test, but there won't be a report card type of evaluation at the end,a grade. I am only trying to get a more full understanding of Christian liberty by the interjections of all who will participate, no matter how scholarly, or otherwise. Thanks. [​IMG]


    Remember, where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty! [​IMG]

    In Christ,

    Brother Ricky
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    For practical puposes, here is my (non-original) defintion:
     
  3. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause
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    </font>[/QUOTE]And what, praytell is that, may I ask? Can you be more specific?
     
  4. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Christian liberty is the freedom to do as one pleases within the confines of the law and the confines of God's will.

    As a Christian, I should be seeking God's will, not trying to see how much I can get by with.

    "Not my will, but thine Lord".

    I can do anything I WANT TO now that I am saved. I have the freedom to do the same things I did when I was lost. I no longer WANT TO do the things I did when I was lost. When you come to Christ, your WANT-TO's should change.

    Blessings,
    Sue
     
  5. Singleman

    Singleman
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    No believer is free to disobey the clear teachings of Scripture, nor are we free to disregard the promptings of the Holy Spirit. We are free, however, from the tyranny of man-made laws and expectations. In the "gray areas," I cannot decide for another Christian what he should do; I can only give an informed opinion tempered by humility and kindness. Too often, it is a lack of these last two attributes that characterizes our relationships with other believers.
     
  6. Alcott

    Alcott
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    If (NT) scripture says to do it, we should do it; if scripture forbids it, we must not do it. That's all the legalism there should be.

    If scripture does not address the particular topic, we need to get rid of this scrounging and scratching for a verse or 2 that might apply one way or the other, because no one does this consistently... that's where liberty comes into it. So don't go ballistic because someone else does not have the same convictions.
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    A believer has the liberty to live his life according to his own choices. These may be good or evil.

    LEGALISM would force a person to make a "right" choice no matter what.

    LIBERTY allows a person to make a "wrong" choice. God warns us NOT to use our liberty to make those bad decisions, giving occasion for the flesh. He wants us to choose wisely.

    But he and man-made rules will not FORCE us to do right. That will come, hopefully, by the inner working of the Holy Spirit.

    NOT by following a bunch of rules.
     
  8. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause
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    It's not a matter of applicable scripture, as much as it is the Spirit of God confirming the scripture in context to that particular activity, behaviour, mode of dress, etc. I say that due to the fact application of any scripture tends to overide the interpetation by one's opinion and how they apply that scripture. If we're not careful, we'll twist the scripture to fit anyway we please ourselves, instead of pleasing the Lord.

    Christian liberty is not a matter of do's and don'ts, shall and shall not, it's the gift granted to the children of God to worship Him.

    "For the Lord is that Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

    What that verse is stating is that we as children of God are set at liberty from the separation caused by sin, to worship the LORD in spirit and truth: John 4.(so leave your waterpot behind you as did the Samaritan woman, and go tell others that Jesus is come, He is the Messiah!)

    The Lord has sought us out, while we were dead in tresspasses and sins, redeemed us unto Himself, allowing us passage through the vail rent at Calvary by the death of Christ. Allowing us to come boldly into the Holy of holies, before the very Throne of Grace, by and through the Blood of Christ.

    In all reality the Christian is set at liberty to lawfully do only one thing, that is worship the LORD God. That is the perfect law of liberty, that which is unrestrained in the realm of spirit and truth. That is why we need both as the balance. Having spirit apart from truth is out of order, consult your local charismatics about that one, you're sure to run into much opposition, but that is because they are opposed to themselves and the truth as well. Then consider having truth, but not the Spirit. Is this possible? Why, yes! I've been in a few meetings where the truth was preached, but the Spirit wasn't detectable, God wasn't within a hundred miles it seemed. The most profound thing remembered was when the a/c turned on and off!

    I know He is somewhere in the shadows, lighting up the place somewhere, for in Him there is no darkness at all!

    We are at liberty to obey the truth, but only as we are prompted by His Spirit do we come to realizations of the why and how we should posess our vessels unto sanctification and meet for the Master's use.

    We are at liberty to live clean, moral, and "peculiar" lives as the people of God. There are to be distinctions in all aspects of our lives as a testimony of the mercy and grace the Lord has for "thousands" (that word is unlimited in our feeble minds, just as ten thousand represents eternity).

    May I suggest this? Chunk all the do's and don'ts and just live for Jesus. Stop all the clamour about legalism and personal liberties/freedoms, and just live clean, holy ,unashamedable lives as dear children of God. I've found the cleaner I live, the more liberty I have in the Lord. Also the less in bondage to this rotting flesh I become.

    I'm no longer under the hand of the Egyptian taskmaster, I'm, at this liberty to serve the True and Living God! Pharoah can have his straw and make his own bricks!

    One of these days I'm going to check out of here, dropping this robe of flesh to the ground from whence it came. Do any of you think for a split second I'll be worrying about what and if to do this or that, and to wonder if it was right or wrong to do it? NO!!! And the moreI realize I'm already seated in heavenly places, the less I'll worry about trying to entertain this stinking, rotten flesh as well. In Heaven I'll be at the Feet of my Saviour, worshipping Him in Person, but for the time being, there's no sense in wasting time! I might as well keep practising until that wonderful, glorious day!

    WOW! Something to set your affections on, huh?!?

    Excuse me while I lose my composure. HALLELUJAH!!!

    Ballistic over what some one else does? You're crazy! I'm not going to waste my time worrying over what anyone else does that doesn't affect me or my family, friends, nation, etc.

    I realized a long time ago, ther's not one sin someone else has committed, that I'll have to answer for! Not one thing the Lord prompted them to do, and they disobeyed that I'll face God over and have to give account. Man, you're talking about LIBERTY! That's it!

    I think I put too much in any one post sometimes, but when I get to thinking about things like this liberty I have in Christ Jesus, it's hard to stop!
    So I'll end this post on that "high" note! (not induced by any sort of drug or alcohol!)

    In the Liberty of Christ!

    Brother Ricky
     
  9. Alcott

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    Who do you think you're talking at here, Ricky? a youth day camp? That scripture does not matter, only the mysticism involved with 'interpreting' it seems to be your main point. But then you go way off-topic about whatever seems to come to mind-- the woman at the well, the charismatics, rotting flesh, Egyptian taskmasters.... You must be into a lot of 'fast-talk.'

    But the simple message is that if we are growing in Christ we will become more like him... all these peripheral things that many Baptists, et al, think they have to force on people does not qualify under the label of liberty.
     
  10. Helen

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    To me, Christian liberty means I have the freedom to follow Christ regardless of what others say or the legalisms or requirements they seem to feel I should match up to at different times. Freedom means I don't have to worry about anything other than paying attention to my Lord.

    He knows what He's about.

    (I read this response to my husband, interrupting his work, and he smiled and said, "Exactly. 100%, Sweetheart." And then he went back to physics. :D )
     
  11. Mark Osgatharp

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    Christian Liberty Means:

    1. Freedom from the fear of eternal damnation because I am secure in Christ.

    2. Freedom from the lusts of the flesh because Christ enables me to refrain from sinful deeds.

    3. Freedom to obey the "do's and don'ts" of the word of God. Despite all antinomian rhetoric to the contrary, Christianity IS about a bunch of "dos and don'ts." As Jesus said,

    "If you love me, keep my commanments."

    4. Freedom from the traditions and fear of man. That is to say, freedom to follow GOD'S "dos and don'ts" rather than man's "dos and don'ts."

    5. Finally, freedom to subject my liberty to the weak conscience of a weak brother or a man of the world. This is freedom to act in love rather than self-centeredness and selfishness.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  12. HankD

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    Even if we are daily led of the Spirit maintaining our fellowship with God acknowledging sins and walking in the light there are still restraints:

    ...that which is not of faith is sin.

    Care and concern for the spiritual walk of our brethren (at very least in the circle of our local Church).

    To know to do good and not do it...

    1 John 1:9

    HankD
     
  13. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause
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    I don't know which part of the wall you're falling off from, but it is definitely off the wall somewhere to say that any Scripture doesn't matter. :rolleyes:

    Growing in Christ shows by the evidences seen in maturity, so be careful not to exploit anyone as those in II Corinthians were trying to do. :(

    2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
     
  14. Alcott

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    Oh, indeed it is, lad. Putting your supposed mysticism into it is just another way of saying scripture does not matter. Your words: "It's not a matter of applicable scripture, as much as it is the Spirit of God confirming the scripture in context to that particular activity, behaviour, mode of dress, etc."
     
  15. Istherenotacause

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    Oh, indeed it is, lad. Putting your supposed mysticism into it is just another way of saying scripture does not matter. Your words: "It's not a matter of applicable scripture, as much as it is the Spirit of God confirming the scripture in context to that particular activity, behaviour, mode of dress, etc." </font>[/QUOTE]You accuse me of mysticism, but the word applicable would have been better stated as applying instead. It's rather obvious you don't know me at all, I hold the Scripture as the utmost authority in all aspects of life, and the Holy Spirit is He who bears witness with our spirit in the Word of God. No mysticism there, old chap!
     

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