Christian love!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by bruren777, Jul 26, 2005.

  1. bruren777

    bruren777
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    If a church allows a person whom has a drinking problem(but aren't drinking anymore) to stay on church property in that persons RV due some unfortunate circumstance not related to their drinking should the Pastor or a deacon speak to that person if they start drinking again.?

    In other words the person has no resources and is on disability. My opinion is that the pastor or a deacon should talk to that person and give them another chance with the understanding that there will be no more drinking, otherwise some action will be taken.

    If the person is not employable due to their disability turning them out to the street would not be a good example of Christian love.

    I know about tough love, however I think the circumstance should be taken into account in certain situations ie. their spouse is incarcerated.

    Let me know your opinions.

    Thanks.
     
  2. guitarpreacher

    guitarpreacher
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    Possible scenario 1: The fellow is forced to leave church property, developes a bitter attitude towards the church and christians in general, later dies and spends eternity in hell.

    Possible scenario 2: The church continues to show kindness and the kindess shown softens his heart and he receives Christ. With Christ in his heart he overcomes the alcohol problem and lives a life that honors God.

    Lots of other possible scenarios but those two jump out at me. If you are going to work with addicts, alcohol or drugs, you have to understand that there will be an occasional relapse. When that happens, they have to decide if they are going to start over with their sobriety, or if they are going to give up and live like an addict. You have to decide if you are going to try to help them start over or if you're going to kick them while their down. Honestly, if you're not willing to be in it for the long haul, it would probably be better if you didn't start at all.

    I would remind him that alcohol is not allowed on church property, then make sure you're available for coffee the next time he needs a drink.
     
  3. guitarpreacher

    guitarpreacher
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    bruren777,

    I reread what I posted, and I said "you" in there a lot. I was replying in general, and not directing at you in particular.
     
  4. bruren777

    bruren777
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    guitarpeacher,
    No problem I knew what you meant. However, I'am a former(recovering)alcoholic. I finally turn to God in 1983, "Ethel Alcohol" had me beaten. The person of whom is was speaking has not been involved in any support group. I don't know if they've accepted Jesus as their savior. On the other hand there are Christian alcoholics(drunkeness is a sin), but none of us are exempt from sin. Romans 3:23 "for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God"
    Prayer for this person is essential.
     
  5. shannonL

    shannonL
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    I think guitarpreacher's advice is good. I spent a whole year as a chaplain in a Rescue Mission. Not alot of fruit there concerning sobering up or salvation. His phrase: "In it for the long haul" is a good one.
    I know while I was a chaplain and going to bible college I also ran a painting business. I would sometimes use guys from the mission on some of my jobs. I would pay them good try to help em out.
    Sometimes they would show up late at night on my doorstep wanting money for booze. I didn't give it. Some of them took advantage of me but some went on to do good things
    I helped this one dude get an apartment etc... He sobered up, quit the crack etc...He never professed Christ while i was involved but he got up an going. The seeds were planted.
    Just use sound judgement. You'll be able to tell pretty soon if he is conning the church or really trying to make a fresh start.
     
  6. TexasSky

    TexasSky
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    I think Guitar Preacher and Shannon are giving you good advice. It is hard to know where that line between "enabling" and "loving" is.

    That said - how serious is the drinking? How did it come to the attention of others that this person was drinking? Is the person causing disruptions on the church property due to their drinking? If he is drinking himself into oblivion, he is drinking himself into an early grave, and I think it would be wrong to allow that.
     
  7. Scott J

    Scott J
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    Scenario 3- The church allows him to stay in spite of his behavior and without confronting him. He continues in a life of sin never hearing that he must repent to be saved.

    Scenario 4- The church goes to him lovingly but firmly and lets him know that they want to help in every way possible. They let him know that drunkenness is a sin that God will punish. They let him know that he can be forgiven if repents and accepts Christ as His sin bearer.... and they also let him know that drinking and drunkenness is unacceptable behavior on the church property because of the testimony it gives to others.

    Kindness is a Christian virtue and responsibility. But kindness alone will not bring about repentance. Jesus was kind. He was also direct in his condemnation of sin and command that men repent. Both kindness and the preaching of repentance are necessary acts of love.
     
  8. bruren777

    bruren777
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    I should have said the pastor suspects the person is drinking because he found an empty booze bottle in a dumpster which is near the RV.
    Any one could have put the bottle in there, but because of the proximity to the RV the pastor thinks it's the person.

    We have two people at the church whom work with those who have a drug or alcohol problem. When I worked with alcoholics I didn't approach them directly, instead I would mention my struggle with alcohol to get them to open up. For some that was all it took to get them to talk. I worked in a hospital recovery unit as a volunteer counselor. Some where there by choice(they where ready to talk) other were there because loved ones convinced them to enter treatment and were stoic.

    So to get back to the person whom is the topic of this subject, I would handle it like I used to. Since I'm not doing counseling anymore I leave it to those hom are doing it.
     
  9. bruren777

    bruren777
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    I should have said the pastor suspects the person is drinking because he found an empty booze bottle in a dumpster which is near the RV.
    Any one could have put the bottle in there, but because of the proximity to the RV the pastor thinks it's the person.

    We have two people at the church whom work with those who have a drug or alcohol problem. When I worked with alcoholics I didn't approach them directly, instead I would mention my struggle with alcohol to get them to open up. For some that was all it took to get them to talk. I worked in a hospital recovery unit as a volunteer counselor. Some where there by choice(they where ready to talk) other were there because loved ones convinced them to enter treatment and were stoic.

    So to get back to the person whom is the topic of this subject, I would handle it like I used to. Since I'm not doing counseling anymore I leave it to those whom are doing it.
     

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