Christianity and War

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ehaase, Jun 13, 2008.

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  1. ehaase

    ehaase
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    http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance143.html

    Most of our Baptist churches will be having God and country services over the next few weeks. I wish that the column written by Mr. Vance (too long to copy and paste here) would get into the hands of our pastors.
     
  2. Martin

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    That is a very unBiblical article. It totally ignores what the Bible actually says about war. Sadly, however, I have learned not to expect much better from some Christians. Maybe Mr. Vance needs to do some Bible and American history homework.
     
  3. LadyEagle

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    Agreed, Martin. But he does make a few points in the article that I agree with, too.
     
  4. rbell

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    Keep in mind...I write this as one who doesn't agree with several of our recent armed conflicts/wars/actions. However....

    This article is pure garbage. Oh, he gets lucky and makes a couple of decent points (I'm not really pleased with the Iraq situation), but the author puts up some real doozies:

    THis guy is dumb enough to call WW2 an immoral war:

    Give me a break. Anyone who can't tell the difference between an ill-advised conflict and a necessary war such as WW2 has no grasp of basic history.

    More gems...This guy compares our soldiers to serial killers:

    More idiocy:

    (guess this guy's never heard of priesthood of the believer, either)

    This guy (Laurence M. Vance, the author of this fertilizer), is ignorant, anti-American, untruthful, and quite frankly is an ungrateful jerk. He should be so lucky to have the right to print his trash...He could be in Germany in 1940, getting executed for dissenting.


    And no...I'm not a fan of many of our wars (Vietnam and Iraq have been at the very least mismanaged; at the most, they shouldn't have been fought, IMO). But it takes a real piece of work to lump legitimate wars such as WW2 into this camp...and even worse, it takes a sorry piece of work to insult our fine soldiers as this "man" does. What an ungrateful jerk. If I were the father of a soldier, I'd be tempted to go visit him and let him have some "cheek turning" practice.

    (I said tempted...not that I would :saint: )

    There. Rant over.
     
    #4 rbell, Jun 13, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2008
  5. Martin

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    I think Mr. Vance has more of a political bone to pick with the U.S. government than a Biblical or theological point about the military and war. Sadly he had confused the two.
     
  6. tinytim

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    Whew... You HAVE to feel better now.. I do just reading your post!!!
    You musta read my mind!

    Guys like this need put on the frontlines....
     
  7. tinytim

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    This should be grounds for treason..
    And this guy should be tried as a terrorist...
    He sounds like an Al queda plant....



    He says:

    [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]It is high time for Christians who still defend the state, its leaders, its military, and its wars to wake up and open their eyes and recognize some cold, hard facts:[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The United States has become a rogue state, a pariah nation, an evil empire.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The United States’ military is the greatest force for evil in the world.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The United States is the arms dealer to the world.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The United States is not the world’s policeman.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The United States cannot redeem the world through violence.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The United States is not the God-anointed protector of Israel that enjoys a special relationship with God.[/FONT]
    • [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The United States government is the greatest threat to American life, liberty, and property – not the leaders or the military or the people of Iraq, Iran, Syria, China, Russia, or Venezuela.[/FONT]
     
    #7 tinytim, Jun 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2008
  8. KenH

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    Lots of people have problems with some of the bombing that took place during World War II, such as the fire bombing of Dresden and Tokyo, and the dropping of the two atomic bombs on Japan.

    I do not share these people's concerns about World War II but I respect their position. It is difficult, as a Christian, to swallow the killing of tens of thousands of people in bombing raids such as Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagaski - even though I understand why these bombing runs by the Allies took place.
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    It is time for another profound statement:


    What a wack job !
     
  10. rbell

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    But Ken, to demonize the soldiers as this idiot does for what was an agonizingly tough (but IMO right) decision made by the superiors is beyond the pale.

    This guy contradicts the daylights out of himself anyway. On one hand, he admits that a military is needed (in his words) for the sole purpose of protecting our country if invaded. OK, fair enough. Then, he pooh-poohs WW2...as if Japan didn't bomb us 12-7-1941. This guy either has an astounding lack of historical knowledge (unlikely), or he has a virulent anti-American agenda (more likely).

    Once again...please don't confuse my words with someone who gives blanket agreement to all military actions ever taken by the US. I don't.
     
  11. KenH

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    Very doubtful. Not agreeing with military actions does not make one anti-American. I agree that some of his statements are over the top.

    But that is pretty much what political and public policy discourse has been reduced to in this nation - make outrageous statements, then those who disagree with the outrageous statements make their own outrageous statements in reply, and so on, and so on, and so on.

    It's just about enough to cause me give up on politics and public policy(other than Foreign Affairs magazine :) ) and just concentrate on bluegrass music and bluegrass music news and articles exclusively.
     
  12. rbell

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    Comparing our troops to serial killers isn't anti-American? If that ain't, then what is?
     
  13. LadyEagle

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    Why not concentrate on the Bible instead?? Just kidding....
    :laugh:
     
  14. KenH

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    Hey, LE, you know that a great deal of bluegrass music is made up of bluegrass gospel music. :)
     
  15. KenH

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    No, it is not anti-American. I imagine the author has the same idea toward the troops of all countries.

    It is not anti-American. It is clearly incorrect, imo.
     
  16. Analgesic

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    I'm with rbell and KenH on this one.

    And I think TinyTim should be tried for treason for suggesting that criticism of America be grounds for treason.
     
  17. rbell

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    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

    BTW, after a lengthy discussion with myself, I have decided that disagreeing with me is not anti-American...unless you do it too much.

    I'm keeping count, Ken. Watch yerself. :eek: :laugh:
     
  18. tinytim

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    Thank God for free speech, and maybe the treason remark was over the top...
    but I was raised on Meryl Haggard type country.. and if an idiot doesn't like our country...

    They should Leave it!!!

    Nothing keeping them here...
    Ship him off to Iran...

    If his statements that I posted earlier were posted without letting anyone know which idiot they belonged too.. someone could have easily mistakened them for the president of Iran...

    "Ima-dang-nut-job"

    (Either him or the stupid guy that was Hussein's right hand man that refused to admit they were losing>..you know the minister of misinformation guy)

    And this guy doesn't appreciate the lives that were given for him to spew his filth all over our troops...

    He doesn't deserve to live in America, if he doesn't appreciate it...

    I wonder who he supports for President.. I didn't see that in his article...uh... I mean diatribe....
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    Calling our troops serial killers is un-patriotic, and un-American.
     
  20. Crabtownboy

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    I agree with you on the bombing of Dresden. From what I have read Dresden was simply a revenge bombinb. The war was for all practical purposes over and there was no military reason for the bombing. Thank God the German people of Dresden had hidden the art treasures outside the city and thus these treasures are now on display in museums in the city.

    Hiroshima and Nagaski is a tougher call. Years ago I transcribed an oral history of a man who was on the planning staff for the invasion of the Japanese home islands. He was asked about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagaski. His response was that it was estimated that if the home islands were invaded that over a million allied soldiers would be killed and at least 5 million Japanese would die in the fighting.

    Each person has to decide which course of action was best at that time.

    IMHO WW II was a justified war. Korea probable was also, but more questionable. The Vietnam War was so mishandled that I'd best not comment. Desert Storm was justifible. Afghanstan was justifible. The current mess in Iraq is immoral.

    I'll duck now. :laugh:
     
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