Christians or Israel

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by OldRegular, Jan 6, 2006.

?

Christians or Israel

  1. Israel

    72.7%
  2. Christians

    27.3%
  3. Neither

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    It is routinely stated on this Forum that Israel is the "Apple of God's Eye" and that God will punish anyone who harms or is at odds with Israel. Suppose the conflict is between Christians, those redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son, and Israel. Who does God favor?
     
  2. FriendofSpurgeon

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    I guess your answer depends on if you are a dispensationalist or not.
     
  3. OldRegular

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    Unfortunately! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Indeed it does. [​IMG]
     
  5. Jim1999

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    Christians are the Israel of God. The nation is just another nation in this world.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. OldRegular

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    Agreed [​IMG]
     
  7. Rachel

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    I agree with Jim.


    Poll Results: Christians or Israel (19 votes.)
    Christians or Israel

    Israel 16% (3)

    Christians 53% (10)

    Neither 32% (6)
     
  8. Helen

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    How could there be a conflict between us?

    Are we the Israel of God? No way!

    All of Isaiah 43 proclaims God's love and protection for Israel. Isaiah 44 continues that reassurance, and includes the following:

    "Remember these things, O Jacob,
    for you are my servant, O Israel.

    I have made you, you are my servant;
    O Israel, I will not forget you.
    I have swept away your offenses like a cloud,
    your sins like the morning mist.
    return to me, for I have redeemed you"

    Sing for joy, O heavens, for the LORD has done this;
    shout aloud, O earth beneath.
    Burst into song, you mountains,
    you forests and all your trees,
    for the LORD has redeemed Jacob,
    he displays his glory in Israel.

    21-23

    Isaiah 49 states

    But Zion said, "The LORD has forsaken me,
    the Lord has forgotten me."
    "Can a mother forget the baby at her breast
    and have no compassion on the child she has borne?
    Though she may forget, I will not forget you!
    See, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands;
    your walls are ever before me."


    And Paul reaffirms all this in Romans 11, starting out with

    "I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means!

    Israel is and always was and always will be ISRAEL, a people created and raised up specifically by God. The Church is all believers from all time and is being built up by Christ as a spiritual unit. The two things are quite different. One is physical and the other spiritual. One is Israel, through whom Christ came, and the other the Church, FOR whom Christ came. Israel is limited by blood. The church only by belief.
     
  9. Helen

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    Just thought of something about that last part. Israel is determined by the blood of the maternal line, I believe, but nevertheless by human blood heritage. The church is determined by those who are covered by Jesus' blood.
     
  10. Linda64

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    Israel is Israel--the Church is the Church. Two separate and distinct entities. The Church is not, nor was it ever intended to be, a continuation of Israel. Nor is the Church a replacement for Israel. God has not forsaken Israel. He has made eternal covenants with Israel that have not been given to the Church. You are getting right back into that Replacement Theology heresy.

    The Israel of God are Jews, the spiritual and natural seed of Abraham, members of the body of Christ, the Church. However, they are not the Church. The Church is the body of Christ, which is composed of believing Jews and Gentiles, which is totally separate and distinct from the nation of Israel.

    I do not intend on voting in such a biased poll. It's obvious where this is going to lead.
     
  11. OldRegular

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    The initial sentence of paragraph 2 appears to contradict paragraph1! :D
     
  12. Linda64

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    If you would look carefully at what I said in paragraph 2, you will see that there is no contradiction there. I didn't say that the Israel of God BECAME the Church or is a CONTINUATION of the Church. What I did say is that the Israel of God are the "spiritual" and "natural" seed of Abraham, believing JEWS who are MEMBERS of the Body of Christ--believing Gentiles are also MEMBERS of the Body of Christ--the Body of Christ/the Church is COMPOSED of Jews and Gentiles who have put their faith in Christ.

    The Church is the Church---Israel is Israel. The fact that the nation of Israel still exists today is a miracle of God and attests to His faithfulness to His chosen people. He is indeed a covenant keeping God. Israel's future existence, restoration and kingdom is based on God's promise to Abraham and David. This is why the kingdom is certain in spite of Israel's rebellion. The covenants are unconditional and eternal.

    Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
     
  13. pinoybaptist

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    Romans 15:4 specifically says that whatsoever things were written aforetime (the Old Testament writings, including the story of Israel) were written for our [the church, the spiritual Israel, the redeemed of the Lamb of God whose covenant with them is from eternity past] learning.

    I used to think there were three distinct entities that God was dealing with: Israel, the nation, the saved as the family of God, and the church.

    No longer.

    Israel, as a nation, was created by God from one man to illustrate His eternal love and relationship to His elect children, the true Israel, all over the world, individually born into this world in all nations and tongues and in every age.

    Through Israel He demonstrates His faithfulness, and the fact that He will always be at their side.

    Israel, the nation, is just another nation, as Jim said. After the cross, its role in God's economy was over.
     
  14. Linda64

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    Israel is NOT just another nation.

    ISRAEL

    (having power with God). The nation chosen and created by God to preserve His truth in the world and to prepare the way for Christ's coming. The nation is named after Jacob, who was renamed Israel by God (Ge 32:28). God called Abraham (Ge 12:1-3). Abraham had Isaac (Ge. 21). Isaac had Jacob (Ge. 25). Jacob had twelve sons who became the twelve tribes of Israel (Ge. 49). To this special people, God gave a Land (Palestine) so they could live separated from the heathen peoples in order to fulfill God's purposes. God delivered the Scriptures to the world through Israel (Ro 3:1-2). He also gave the Savior to the world through Israel (Ro 9:4-5). Temporarily the nation Israel has been set aside in the purposes of God. Today He is creating a special body of saved people composed both of Jews and Gentiles (Ac 15:14-16; Eph 3:1-21). After this present work is accomplished, God will again resume His purposes with the nation Israel and will fulfill all the O.T. promises and prophecies concerning them (Ro 11:25-27)
     
  15. OldRegular

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    I agree! :D :D
     
  16. OldRegular

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    If you would look carefully at what I said in paragraph 2, you will see that there is no contradiction there. I didn't say that the Israel of God BECAME the Church or is a CONTINUATION of the Church. What I did say is that the Israel of God are the "spiritual" and "natural" seed of Abraham, believing JEWS who are MEMBERS of the Body of Christ--believing Gentiles are also MEMBERS of the Body of Christ--the Body of Christ/the Church is COMPOSED of Jews and Gentiles who have put their faith in Christ.

    </font>[/QUOTE]Is your explanation above what politicians called parsing? It sure does not agree with your original post shown below:

    The Israel of God are Jews, the spiritual and natural seed of Abraham, members of the body of Christ, the Church. However, they are not the Church. The Church is the body of Christ, which is composed of believing Jews and Gentiles, which is totally separate and distinct from the nation of Israel.
     
  17. Linda64

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    I have no idea what "parsing" means. I looked it up in the dictionary and I have no clue what you mean.
     
  18. OldRegular

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    I have no idea what "parsing" means. I looked it up in the dictionary and I have no clue what you mean. </font>[/QUOTE]Parsing is generally used to mean you rephrase something to mean what you want. Please note the difference between your original paragraph and your revised paragraph.
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    The poll is ridiculous which is why I have no intention in voting in it.
     
  20. OldRegular

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    Is it because you are a dispensationalist idealogue? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
     

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