Christians Punished?

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by OldRegular, Jan 8, 2006.

?

Christians Punished?

  1. Yes.

    59.1%
  2. No.

    40.9%
  3. Don't know, don't care, just wanted to see the outcome.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. OldRegular

    OldRegular
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    There is an earlier poll on this Forum which addresses this question but perhaps the choices were not as explicit as they should have been. [I have been soundly chastized for my selection of choices.] I am restarting the poll but restating the choices, hopefully to get a more accurate response.

    It is routinely stated on this Forum that Israel is the "Apple of God's Eye" and that God will punish anyone who harms or is at odds with Israel. [Recall that Pat Robertson states that God is punishing Sharon for withdrawal from Gaza.]

    Suppose that a conflict arises between Christians, those redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ, the incarnate Son, and Israel or for that matter between an individual Christian and a Jew.

    Will God punish the Christians or Christian?
     
  2. Linda64

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    God chastises His children. If the individual is a child of God, Jew or Gentile, God will chastise, or correct.

    For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (Hebrews 12:6-8)

    BTW, Saved Jews are also called Christians--they are MEMBERS of the Body of Christ/Messiah. They don't become "Gentiles" when they come to Christ, they remain Jews by ethnicity.(the family may, in some cases, excommunicate their Jewish relatives for believing in Jesus, believing they have become "Gentiles"). I am a born again, blood washed Jewish believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a MEMBER of the Body of Christ and also a member of an IFB local church where I live.

    So, in light of the fact that saved Jews are called Christians, what type of conflict are you speaking of? Are you speaking of conflicts between the Church and national Israel, or an individual unsaved Jew and a born again believer?
     
  3. OldRegular

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    Any person when they are saved become members of the body of Jesus Christ, the Church. As the Apostle Paul tells us in Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Why do you dispensationalists, contrary to Scripture, want to make a difference between a Jewish Christian and a Gentile Christian? Sadly some people make a difference between black, red, yellow, and white Christians. I could state that I am a WASB, White Anglo-Saxon Baptist, so does that make me any different than any other Christian in the sight of God?

    There are two kinds of people in this world:
    1. those saved by the Grace of God and
    2. the unsaved whether Jew, Gentile, black, white or any combination thereof.

    Finally, in answer your to last question, I am speaking of both conflicts between the Church and national Israel and an individual unsaved Jew and a born again believer?
     
  4. OldRegular

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    Those who state that God would punish the Christians should at least defend their answer.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Sad that 50% of the respondents so far don't know or care when false doctrine is taught.
     
  6. Linda64

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    All I said was that I was a born again, blood washed Jewish believer in the Lord Jesus Christ. My Jewish heritage has NOTHING to do with my salvation--ok? I am Jewish by blood--can't change that. It wasn't my Jewishness that saved me, I was saved by grace through faith, just like everybody else.
    Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: (1 Corinthians 10:32)

    I see three kinds of people here: Jews, Gentiles, and the church of God (saved Jews and Gentiles). The church did not exist until Christ came. It is an entity distinct from Israel.

    Punish the Christians? For what? I never said God punishes the Christians. I simply quoted Hebrews 12:6-8--God chastises His children, whether they be Jew or Gentile. Look up the definition of chastise.

    Sorry, but this poll is too ambiguous.
     
  7. LadyEagle

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    The poll is ridiculous which is why I have no intention in voting in it.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    Is it ridiculous because you are a dispensationalist idealogue?
     
  9. OldRegular

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  10. Linda64

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    I'm with you LadyEagle [​IMG]
     
  11. OldRegular

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    I'm with you LadyEagle [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Is it ridiculous because you are a dispensationalist idealogue?
     
  12. LadyEagle

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    OR tries unsuccessfully to bait the LE.... :D

    Your poll has a faulty premise, which makes it ridiculous.

    Bait taken. [​IMG]
     
  13. OldRegular

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    OR successfully baits LE!
    :D :D :D :D :D
     
  14. partialrapture

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    Well... for what its worth I voted yes
    But would like to give some disclaimers
    I believe there are 3 types on this earth today

    1)obediant believers
    2)disobediant believers
    3)unbelievers
    The disobediant believers will not only be punished now for sin but also at the judgment seat of Christ

    2Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    May God bless his word in your hearts
     
  15. OldRegular

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    I don't understand what the above response has to do with the Question. Enlighten me.
     
  16. LadyEagle

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    OR successfully baits LE!
    :D :D :D :D :D
    </font>[/QUOTE]This is your faulty premise:
    Faulty premise: That scenario won't happen.

    Evangelical Christians as a group are the Nation of Israel's largest supporters on the entire planet, especially politically.

    These same supporters of Israel, Evangelical Christians, believe the Land Belongs to Israel and God has brought them back as a Nation again in 1948 - not because of Israel's merit - but because God made an everlasting Unconditional Abrahamic Covenant with Israel and will not break His Word - (not to be confused with the Mosaic Covenant which was conditional). There is no conflict, so that's what makes your poll have a faulty premise. It has nothing to do with dispensations. And it's not about choosing sides. We're grafted in, remember? Romans Chapter 11. (Sad to say, Christians have treated Jews like scum for most of history. Praise God, we are now trying to heal the wounds as we preach the Gospel and point them to their Messiah.)

    I await your rebuttal.... :D
     
  17. Linda64

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    AMEN LadyEagle-- [​IMG]

    You could not have said that any better.

    Abrahamic covenant (Ge 12:1-3,7; 13:14-18; 15:1-21). God promised to bless Abraham and his nation and the entire world through his Seed. Jesus Christ is Abraham's Son and inherits these blessings and bestows them upon those who believe (Mt 1:1; Ga 3:6-29). The national, physical aspects of Abraham's covenant will yet be fulfilled to the nation Israel (Jer 30:1-24).

    Mosaic covenant (Ex 19:1-24). This is also called the Old Covenant (Testament), or the Law of Moses. The Mosaic covenant was a system of law God gave to Israel on Mt. Sinai. The purpose of this law was to prepare Israel and the world for the Savior by (1) revealing sin through showing God's standard of righteousness, and (2) showing God's way of salvation and pointing to Christ in types such as the Tabernacle, the Levitical offerings, the priesthood, and the feasts (Ro 3:19-10; Ga 3:10-13). The Mosaic law was also given to separate Israel from other nations that she might remain pure through the centuries as God accomplished His will through her (Le 20:22-26)

    The Mosaic law was never intended as a means of salvation, which has always been received, in any age, through faith in God's revelation and on the basis of the shed blood of Christ (Ro 3:19-22; 4:3-13; Ga 3:1-29).

    For the following reasons we know that Israel's disobedience to the law of Moses and God's judgment which followed have not annulled the promises contained in the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants: (1) The Mosaic covenant was not connected to the Abrahamic, thus it could not overthrow it (De 5:1-3). (2) The Mosaic law was only a temporary system given to prepare Israel for salvation-not given to overthrow her promises in the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants (Ro 4:9-16; Ga 3:21-4:5; also contrast Heb 6:13-20 with Heb 8:13). (3) The New Covenant, which reaffirms all promises of the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants, was given after Israel had miserably broken the Mosaic law and judgment had been pronounced by God (Jer 31:32).

    The Mosaic covenant was done away with when Christ died (2Co 3:1-18; Ga 3:1-29; Ro 4:1-25; Heb 7:1-9).
    Way of Life Encyclopedia of the Bible, Covenant: David Cloud
     
  18. OldRegular

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  19. LadyEagle

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    My rebuttal: :D

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Abrahamic-covenant.html


    They are absent from the body, present with the Lord. But they will hang their heads in shame at the Bema seat for their treatment of the Jews. Corrie ten Boom will not be among those hanging their heads in shame. And many who called themselves Christians on earth will not be found in heaven. [​IMG]
     
  20. LadyEagle

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    My second rebuttal: :D

    Wash Post

    I kindly await your rebuttal, OR. :D It is a pleasure to debate with you. You are such a gentleman. [​IMG]
     

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