Christians resisting God?

But does it not give a reason why? That because it is a "good" to do what is "just"? Isn't Romans 13 speaking of obeying righteous government??

Perhaps God did not lay it on their hearts to rise up! God displays His power in many forms, sometimes he asks us to die and sometimes He asks us to stand up and defend or conquer an evil.

Jesus told us to turn the other cheek. Does this mean that Christians who become soldiers and fight are sinning against God?

 

The powers that be are created by God. How do you see God forming the USA?

You said God lead Israel to rebel against kingdoms to establish them as the power that be. God told them at times to kill even the children. Did God lead them against His word 'thou shall not kill'?

:jesus:

 

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


The biblical "evidence" is strikingly clear. God forms the "powers that be". Thus far you have rejected all the theories I have put forth. I put them forth to seek an answer. I am not promoting them as a matter of fact. I would like to understand how God works in men to bring forth His "powers that be" so I can explain it to others who ask. Do you have any suggestions to present? Just nay saying all the attempts to reconcile the two does not help sharpen the iron.

God formed all the powers that be, this I can be certain of. This includes the evil ones as well. This country was formed through a "declaration of independence" which must have come from God. Now was the declaration a sin? This is the question I seek an answer for?

If God does the forming, as the srcipture declares, then it is God who put it in the heart of men to conquer other men or fight to break free of other men. There is plenty of "evidence" of this found in the scriptures.

I have to accept the scripture that states it is God who forms all of these powers that be, both good and evil. Does this excuse men like Hitler? No, God used an evil man to carry out His agenda, just like He did Pharaoh. God even hardened Pharaoh's heart so he could not obey Him and let the people go. Does this mean that God caused Pharaoh's disobedience and thus God caused Pharaoh to sin?

Now here is the question, do you think God seen the founding fathers as an evil or as a good for His plan to form the USA?

:jesus:

 

2Ch 18:18¶Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and [on] his left.
2Ch 18:19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.
2Ch 18:20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?
2Ch 18:21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And [the LORD] said, Thou shalt entice [him], and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do [even] so.
2Ch 18:22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.



Do you see that it was the LORD who commanded the evil spirit to entice Ahab to war by placing a lying spirit in the mouths of 400 prophets?

Ahab was wicked and God wanted Ahab destroyed.

God does not use sin just on the wicked. What about Job? Job was a righteous man yet God enticed satan to bring sin upon him.

You say God does not lead people into sin. All things were created by Him and for Him, for the glory of Christ, even satan and sin brings God glory. It was satan and sin that murdered our Lord Jesus Christ. If this ultimate sin had never happened were would we be? God foreordained the sacrifice of His Son before He ever created anything.

If God is sovereign, and He is, then God is in control of everything. For His purposes and for His glory. This includes the evil, God is in control.

:jesus:

 

Are you reading the text Marcia?

God asked for a spirit to entice Ahab.

The word of the LORD states that it is God who placed the lying spirit into the prophets so they would lie.

You can't just ignore the word of God that does not sound all warm and fuzzy. It is what it is. Stating that it is a judgment does not change the truths stated in the word of God about God causing people to sin to fulfill His purposes.

I believe if you go back and re-read it you will find that it was God who enticed satan concerning Job.

Job 1:8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

:thumbsup:

 

The spirit, which God sent, caused the four hundred prophets to lie to Ahab. Ahab did not lie.

I am well aware of James 1:13, but it does not cause me to reject the clear word of the Lord concerning His sovereinty over sin expressed for us in the OT. We need to find harmony between the two, not dismiss one over the other. Just calling it "judgment", which some of it is, does not change the means God used for that judgment.

God is righteous, God hates sin, God uses evil for His purposes, God does not condone evil, God cannot abide in sin. AMEN!

The word of the LORD still stands. You dismiss the OT accounts of God using sin, even causing sin, by saying they are judgments. Yes, many are judgments, but this does not change the fact that God used sin to bring them and to bring Him glory.

True. But I have posted evidence that God is sovereign even in causing sin to bring about His judgments and to fulfill His purposes.

You need not go there my dear sister. I believe God is perfectly holy and righteous, never goes against His word and cannot sin.

So I am left with the task of making sense of the OT accounts of God causing sin and harmonizing that with James 1:13.

I cannot dismiss one for the other, Both are truth and there must be a solution. Maybe God will never reveal it to me, but I will ask and pray. I will not dismiss any of God's word that declares His full sovereinty over all things, even sin.

Do you notice how very few are willing to post on this matter? That is because it is a difficult topic and it is easier just to dismiss those OT accounts rather than truly deal with them. I know you say "judgments", however true, it does not deal with the declarations made concerning God's hand in bringing about those judgments through the use of sin.

You did not address Job. God enticed satan to engage concerning Job. What judgment would this be for? Job was a righteous man who eshewed evil.

:jesus:

 

Where did you read this in the scriptures?

THe beggining of the account goes like this....

Job 1:8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

God began the conversation. Where does it say what you say?

:jesus:

 

God commands the evil angels. In fact, they cannot do any evil without God's consent. God called upon the host of heaven asking for an evil spirit to entice Ahab. The spirit that stepped up to the task told God it would entice Ahab to sin by placing a lying spirit in the mouths of 400 prophets. God then commanded the spirit to do that very thing.

I am searching for harmony between this fact about God enticing Ahab to sin and James 1:13 which states that God does not tempt any man. I'm sorry Marcia, but I don't see your pov as accomplishing this task. You seem to just dismiss the very words spoken about Ahab. I do not dismiss James and I equally cannot dismiss Chronicles.

Somehow, God can cause a person to sin, yet He Himself is totally righteous in doing so and without sin.

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rom 9:22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:


But then James says that God tempts no man. I need to explore and pray more about this tempting James is speaking of. It appears to be a direct contradiction to Chronicles, but since that cannot be, there must be a solution God has not yet revealed to me.

Has He revealed it to anyone else who has been reading this thread?

 

We have been on issue.....here is the issue;

a) Rebellion forms new governments. Without rebellion against an existing government there would never be any new governments.

b) Col 1:16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Did the founding fathers create the USA or did God?

Scripture states it was God. God used these men and we know that the founding fathers rebelled against the King.

Why did they rebel? Because God wanted them to so that a new power would be established. Yet God is without blame and without sin!

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

God's ways are always righteous, even when He commanded men to kill even the children because their parents had sinned.

:jesus: