Christians United for Israel

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Jul 26, 2006.

  1. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
  2. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    n how's John Hagee's understanding of the Bible "flawed"?
     
  3. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2004
    Messages:
    2,398
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can share a couple of ways that I see his view being flawed...

    He is a pentecostal
    He is a prosperity theologian
    He believes in dual covenant theology when it comes to the church and Israel.

    Could be more...but those are the ones Im aware of.

    Bro Tony
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2000
    Messages:
    17,527
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have been saying this for a long time. I wonder why nobody has seemed to figure this out till now.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thx, Bro Tony. i'd suppose that the 3rd instance is pertinent here, that of his Dual Covenant.

    now, i wonder how Zionism n Dual Covenant intersect--perhaps both are flawed, but in what way precisely?

    just returning to the OP: "Fortunately, one can support the country of Israel without being a part of this group, Christians United for Israel, with a flawed understanding of the Bible and led by John Hagee."
     
  6. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    http://pws.prserv.net/mpjr/mp/sp160202.htm

    http://www.cephas-library.com/replacement_theology/replacement_theology_history.html
     
    #6 LadyEagle, Jul 26, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2006
  7. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    Certainly sounds pretty Biblically correct to me. :thumbs:
     
  8. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    35
    Question: Why do most conservative Christians always support Israel so very strongly (almost without question) rather than having a more balanced view between the Arab countries and Israel, especially when there are far more Arabic Christians than Christians in Israel???
     
  9. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    How can you say "Flawed understanding of the Bible" ?

    Do you believe this Bible ?

    Genesis 15:18-21
    18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: 19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, 20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, 21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites

    We don't need John Hagee, but the Bible is enough.

    If you don't believe the above shown Bible, then you have the flawed understanding of Bible.
     
    #9 Eliyahu, Jul 26, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2006
  10. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    can't speak for John Hagee, but these questions might be helpful:

    1. was realisation of the covenant of the land unconditional? might be helpful to list the conditions in the Torah for a start.

    2. was the realisation of the land covenant historically continuous? if not, why not?

    3. when is the fulfilment of OT promises of national Israel's return to the land in glory n peace under their Messiah? was it in 1948? if not, when?
    i don't think anyone's "disbelieving this Bible." :thumbsup:
     
  11. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    actually, the doctrine may trace a little further back, to the apostolic era (highlights added):


    i wonder how our learned forummers wld understand the parts put in bold.

    perhaps the misunderstanding lies in the nature of the replacement, that it involves Christians getting to occupy the land of Palestine/Israel: "the Jews have been replaced by the Christians in God’s favour and so all God’s promises to the Jews, including the land of Israel, have been inherited by Christianity." perhaps the idea of replacement isn't a simple one-for-one exchange, such that Christians can march into Haifa or Gilo with flags to plant their own "settlements." some questions to consider in this regard:

    1. since national Israel's part involves spiritual n real estate blessings, does their "rejection" involve forfeiture of both? what do words like broken off, cut off, loss, n rejection entail? what abt terms like fullness, acceptance, reconciliation, will be grafted in?

    2. since the church's part involves (until the Millennium, if u're Premill) only spiritual blessings, shdn't Christians eschew fiddling in Mideast politics in terms of supporting one side over another regarding occupying the Land?

    3. cld it be that the church's role (n spiritual legacy) for this time n age is to fulfil the Gt Commission: i.e. make disciples of all nations by first baptising them n then teaching them to obey Christ? did Christ command us to send millions of dollars for Jewish relocation or to campaign in Washington for the State of Israel? why didn't Christ n Peter n Paul go around supporting national Israel the way today's "Christian Zionists" do?
    i'd be v interested to know how various people handle Romans 11.
     
  12. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    I find premillennialism in general, and the dispensational brand in particular, to not line up with what the Bible teaches.

    I imagine you consider my understanding of the Bible to be flawed. Fortunately, one's particular eschatological understanding is irrelevant to coming to Jesus in repentance and faith.

    If you are not already aware of them, here are descriptions of the four major eschatological understandings:

    www.fivesolas.com/esc_chrt.htm

    http://home.att.net/~nathan.wilson/eschtlgy.htm

    I am an amillennialist. I think that the best commentary on the book of Revelation is More Than Conquerors by William Hendriksen.
     
    #12 KenH, Jul 27, 2006
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2006
  13. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,052
    Likes Received:
    35
    I agree. Sometimes I think way too much is emphasized on this - perhaps encouraged by the very popular Left Behind series.

    Also, there are some other views of the end times as well. I tend to be amill too (also partial preteristic - though I cannot agree with the full preterism approach).
     

Share This Page

Loading...