Christlikeness in Everything

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by MarciontheModerateBaptist, Jan 16, 2002.

  1. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist
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    Dear Posters,

    I would like to start a thread on the importance of Christlikeness in our attitudes and discussions. I am as guilty as anyone else of, at times, writing things in a malicious spirit. Since most of our definitions diverge concerning other topics, I am sure as well that our definitions will differ concerning Christlikeness.

    "Ever since puberty I have believed in the value of two things: kindness and clear thinking. At fist these two remained more or less distinct; when I felt triumphant I believed most in clear thinking, and in the opposite mood I believed most in kindness. Gradually, the two have come more and more together in my feelings. I find that much unclear thought exists as an excuse for cruelty, and that much cruelty is prompted by superstitious belief."
    -Bertrand Russell
    Autobiography
     
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Payne - Why talk about "Christlikeness" and then quote Bertrand Russel? Talk about oxymoronic!

    Know you are not endorsing his "unChristlikeness" by quoting him, but thought a different choice might be more relevant.
     
  3. Gina B

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    It was a perfectly logical statement taking into context the message, concerning our differing definitions of WHAT Christlikeness is. ;)
    da Gina
     
  4. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist
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    Dr. Bob,

    You probably will not even come close to agreeing with this statement, but even non-Christians can exhibit the characteristics of Christ-likeness. After all, Scripture says "whoever gives water to the thirsty has it done it to me." [my paraphrase] I am not saying Bertrand was a Christian; I am simply saying we can sometimes learn from non-Christians. I do see your point, though.

    Daniel Payne
     
  5. Monergist

    Monergist
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    paynedaniel,
    would we disagree if I said that Christlikeness is about showing love? Doesn't love "rejoice in the truth?" I Cor. 13:6.
     
  6. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist
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    TimothyW,

    I would certainly agree that Christlikeness is all about love. Christ embodied the God who is love.

    Daniel Payne
     
  7. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paynedaniel:
    Dr. Bob,

    You probably will not even come close to agreeing with this statement, but even non-Christians can exhibit the characteristics of Christ-likeness. After all, Scripture says "whoever gives water to the thirsty has it done it to me." [my paraphrase] I am not saying Bertrand was a Christian; I am simply saying we can sometimes learn from non-Christians. I do see your point, though.

    Daniel Payne
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The quote of Christ is taken out of context, as it was spoken to believers. Bertrand Russell, like all unbelievers, are liars, and cannot be Christlike or exhibit real love.

    "Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son." 1 John 2:22

    True Christlikeness is explained by John in chapter 4:

    4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
    5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.
    6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
    7 ¶ Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
    8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.
    9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.
    10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
    11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
     
  8. Gina B

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    Nice try Daniel Payne, but I don't think people can talk about Christlikeness without arguing?
    I'm amused, yet not! [​IMG]
    Think I'll go ponder that thought. :rolleyes:
    Gina
     
  9. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist
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    I know, Gina. It's kinda sad. It seems to me that the love of God is a pretty straightforward thing.

    Daniel
     
  10. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    Nice try Daniel Payne, but I don't think people can talk about Christlikeness without arguing?
    I'm amused, yet not! [​IMG]
    Think I'll go ponder that thought. :rolleyes:
    Gina
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Gina:

    Can you point out arguing on this thread, or is biblical correction now "politically incorrect"? :confused:
     
  11. Gina B

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    Technically, you're correct Chris. Of course, while we Baptists are busy pointing out the unChristlikeness of everyone else, I wonder what they're doing?
    The Mormons are promoting family togetherness.
    The Catholics are doing charity work.
    Another group is fighting abortion.
    Yet another is taking measures against pornography.
    Maybe they're all going to hell and we're not.
    Kinda puts the Christians, to shame though, doesn't it?
    Gina
     
  12. MarciontheModerateBaptist

    MarciontheModerateBaptist
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  13. Bob Alkire

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    Gina,I agree with you but isn't your quote below what all baptist do?

    Gina's quote
    ---------------------------------------------
    The Mormons are promoting family togetherness.
    The Catholics are doing charity work.
    Another group is fighting abortion.
    Yet another is taking measures against pornography.
    ---------------------------------------------
    We all street preach, go to jails to teach about Christ, work with the poor or what ever the Holy Spirit leads us to .
    As in Romans 1:9 we are to serve but we are to serve in the spirit or we serve God as priest, therefore every act of our service should be rendered to God as an act of worship!

    [ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Bob Alkire ]
     
  14. Gina B

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    "Every act of our service should be rendered to God as an act of worship."

    [​IMG] I couldn't agree with you more. [​IMG]
    As far as the rest, I'm just not seeing it on the same scale as others are doing it. What do I see?
    Pardon me while I get this off my chest because it's been bugging me!
    Here's an example. September 11th. How many people think of great witnessing opportunities, imagine what it would be like if THOUSANDS of people's hearts were softened and they were just ready and willing to think about God for a while? What would you do? Would we seize on that opportunity? Well, it happened, and you know what we did? We pointed fingers and said "Look at them! This it terrible and disgusting! All these people uniting and praying and they don't really even know who God is!"
    Where were all the Baptists throughout all this? Huh? The only voices I heard standing out were the ones condemning everyone else. That's it.
    Yeah, maybe some of us go and do what we're supposed to, but how many of us are there???
    Ok, I'm shutting up for the rest of the day now. Grrr.
    Gina
     
  15. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gina:
    [QBHere's an example. September 11th. How many people think of great witnessing opportunities, imagine what it would be like if THOUSANDS of people's hearts were softened and they were just ready and willing to think about God for a while? What would you do? Would we seize on that opportunity? Well, it happened, and you know what we did? We pointed fingers and said "Look at them! This it terrible and disgusting! All these people uniting and praying and they don't really even know who God is!"
    Where were all the Baptists throughout all this? Huh? The only voices I heard standing out were the ones condemning everyone else. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Maybe that's all the media was showing? After all, what is a better promo for the world; every "religious person" from Oprah to the Dali Lama holding hands and singing kumbaya, or born-again believers witnessing and handing out tracts at ground zero?

    My seminary and area churches sent busloads of people and witnessing tools up to NY after 9/11. My guess is we were not the only ones. Don't sell born again believers short because they are not camera magnets nor willing to hold hands with the devil.

    [ January 17, 2002: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]
     
  16. Clint Kritzer

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    Hello Mr. Payne -

    I expect this thread shot off in a totally different direction than what you expected and I think we all know why. When you first joined this board you presented yourself as a liberal. I expect any thread on any topic you post now will be derailed in the same way. The topic you started was a beautiful idea that would indeed inspire unity among the majority of Baptist and Christians in general, but unfortunately, it has come to the point on this board that a group of believers can't even talk about how much they enjoy and get out of Sunday School without some conservative bully running up and kicking down their sand castle.

    I don't know the testimonies of all the folks on this board or what their upbringing was or who first educated them in Christian philosophy. Speaking for me, I was raised in a Christian home and attended my Southern Baptist church from the time I was in the cradle. After 37 years of being immersed in the same philosophy, nothing has changed about the attitude of Christianity. Jesus still loves the little children. God sent His Son into the world to save the world. The Bible is the instruction manual that leads to salvation. Doing a quick, unscientific search on my computer, I found that the word "love" appears 546 times in the King James Bible and I guarantee that not every single inference is directed toward the elect. As a matter of fact, Christ specifically addresses the issue in the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5: 43 - 48:
    43
    Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
    44
    But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    45
    That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
    46
    For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
    47
    And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
    48
    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Of course, I'm sure someone will post after this and say, "Hey! That's not what that means!" Someone always does.

    I may have left this board some time ago but I always felt that if I did and some new believer came on here looking for answers and support, they would be bullied away by the strong admonishments that leave such a bad taste in most of our mouths. If we are speaking about Christ-like behavior, who did Christ admonish? First of all Satan, the money-changers in the temple, but mostly it was those who were supposed to be the keepers of the law.

    Who did Christ praise and lift up and encourage? The meek, the humble, prostitutes, the demon possessed, lepers…

    We read these postings of how upset the fundamentalists become when they are compared to the Taliban or the Pharisees. What do they expect? This is not a theocracy, neither in this country, nor in our churches, nor on the Baptist Board. It sickens me when a well intentioned Christian cites a passage of scripture that is meaningful to them and has in some way enlightened them, and some theological dictator yanks it out of their hand and beats them over the head with it.

    It is possible that Judas Iscariot betrayed Christ because he thought that it would spur Him into action. Judas wanted a militant Messiah. You can't spur God! Christ remained gentle and forgiving and loving even on the cross! He forgave the criminal, he forgave the Romans. This was a God who loved the world and gave us all an equal shot at salvation.

    However, Mr. Payne, we don't have time to talk about that. You see, word has it that a 16 year old girl who has been moved to find Christ will be joining the BB today and we got some heavy duty rebuking to do! It seems she became interested by listening to some Contemporary Christian music with lyrics taken from the Living Bible and we all know how evil all THAT stuff is! Her daddy said he'd always love her, but he's an athiest and doesn't know what love is and this girl needs to know that! But don't worry. One of the athiest on the board will get her screenname from the profile and IM her and lead that little sinning heathen away from here, making this place safe for the elect once again. Hallelujah! So, Mr. Payne, why not join us and kick back in your swivel throne, pop open a caffeinated cola, stare at your PC (I sure hope the founders of Apple were saved!), open up Windows (Bill Gates, too!), and rebuke, rebuke, rebuke! This ain't no Priesthood of believers! This is the Almighty's Goon-squad! Make sure you get your postings in soon on that 16 year old though. You don't want to be late for the stoning of the adultress!

    There will be plenty of time for talking about Christlikeness once the handful of us have been taken from the world…

    May God bless ALL of us

    - Clint
     
  17. Deitrich B

    Deitrich B
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    Clint
    That was a fantastic post! I couldn't agree with you more. Start ducking though, Im sure you will get beat up with scripture about rebuking, authority etc.
    Thanks though you made my day!
    D
     
  18. Gina B

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    Yay, somebody DOES get it! [​IMG]
    Anyhow, now that all that's done, what was the original intention of this thread? ;)
    Gina
     
  19. Optional

    Optional
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    Great post, Klint. Many have been thinking it.
     
  20. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I expect this thread shot off in a totally different direction than what you expected and I think we all know why. When you first joined this board you presented yourself as a liberal. I expect any thread on any topic you post now will be derailed in the same way. The topic you started was a beautiful idea that would indeed inspire unity among the majority of Baptist and Christians in general, but unfortunately, it has come to the point on this board that a group of believers can't even talk about how much they enjoy and get out of Sunday School without some conservative bully running up and kicking down their sand castle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    I guess I’ll put my neck out for biblical conservatism.

    Anytime anyone discusses anything with a liberal, the central issue becomes one of tolerance and love, as if these are the sole characteristics of Christ, and the only mode by which one must engage in discussion. However to be truly Christ-like means to be like Christ in all things.

    Christ, being God possesses all of the characteristics of God. we being man cannot be omniscient, omnipotent and omniscient, (his non-communicable traits) but we can strive for his communicable characteristics, which include much more than “love.”

    Among the traits possessed by Christ are obedience: Ps 40:8; Is 50:5; Lu 2:51; Jn 4:34; 8:29; 14:31; 15:10; Ro 5:19; Php 2:8; Heb 5:8; 10:7, 9 holiness: Mk 1:24; Lu 1:35; Ac 4:27; Heb 7:26; Re 3:7 (cf. 1 Pe 1:16) righteousness: Is 9:7; 11:5; 53:11; 59:16–17; Je 23:5–6; Zec 9:9; Mt 3:15; 27:19; Lu 23:47; Jn 5:30; 18:38; Ac 3:14; 7:52; Ro 5:18; 1 Co 1:30; 2 Ti 4:8; Heb 1:9; 1 Pe 3:18; 2 Pe 1:1; 1 Jo 2:1, 29 sinlessness: Is 53:9; Lu 1:35; Jn 8:29, 46; 2 Co 5:21; Heb 4:15; 7:26–28; 9:14; 1 Pe 1:19; 2:22; 1 Jo 3:5 (cf. Is 50:8–9) innocence: Mt 27:4, 24; Lu 23:47; Heb 7:26; 1 Pe 2:22 good: Mk 10:17–18; Jn 10:11, 14 (cf. Mt 4:23–24); Ac 10:38 faithfulness: Is 11:5; Heb 2:17; 3:2; Re 1:5; 3:14; 19:11 loving: Mk 10:21; Jn 11:3, 5; 13:1, 33–34; 14:21, 23, 31; 15:13; 17:23; 19:26; Ro 8:35, 37; 2 Co 5:14; Ga 2:20; Eph 3:19; 5:2, 25; 1 Jo 3:16; Re 1:5; 3:19 humbleness: Zec 9:9; Mt 11:29; Php 2:6 (cf. Jn 13:3–10); Heb 5:5 gentleness: Is 40:11; Mt 11:29; 12:19–20; 21:5; 26:52; 2 Co 10:1 mercifulness: Mk 5:19; 1 Ti 1:16; Heb 2:17; Jud 21 (cf. Mt 9:27; 15:22; 17:15; Lu 23:34) patience: 1 Ti 1:16 (cf. Is 53:7; Mt 27:14) compassion: Mt 9:36; 15:32; 20:34; Mk 1:41; Lu 7:13; 23:34; Jn 19:25–27; Php 2:1 guilelessness: Jn 1:47 true: Mt 22:16; Jn 1:14; 7:18; 1 Jo 5:20; Re 19:11 (cf. 2 Co 11:10) humor: Mt 19:24; 23:24; Mk 3:17 prayerfulness : Mt 14:19, 23; 26:36–44; 27:46; Mk 1:35; Lu 6:12; 22:32; 23:34–46; Jn 17:1–26; Heb 5:7 (cf. Mt 11:25) full of grace: Jn 1:14, 16–17 (cf. Ps 45:2; Lu 4:22); Ro 5:17; 2 Co 8:9; 1 Ti 1:14 diligence in work: Is 50:7; Mk 1:35; Jn 4:31–34; 9:4; 17:4; 19:30 (cf. Heb 12:2–3) zealousness: Jn 2:17 (cf. Lu 2:49) impartiality: Mt 22:16 victorious over sin, Satan and the world: Mt 4:1–11; 12:20; Jn 12:31; 14:30; Heb 2:14; 4:15; 1 Jo 3:8; Re 20:10 meekness: 2 Co 10:1 self-denial: Mt 20:28; 26:39; Jn 6:38; 10:17–18; Ro 15:3; Lu 22:27; 2 Co 8:9; Php 2:5–8; Heb 10:1–10; 1 Jo 3:16 majesty: 2 Pe 1:17 and wrathful: Re 6:16–17 (cf. 1:14)

    The listing is of course, not exhaustive of all that Christ is. But he is more than nebulous love; he is purposeful love for all that is righteous and holy and glorious. In other words, he loves God more than he loves us. And we must love God and truth more than we love anything else. The great commandment is this:

    Matt 22:37 And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ 38 “This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 “The second is like it, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ 40 “On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”

    Truth without love is hard and cold. But love without truth, is lukewarm bile, which Christ spews out of his mouth.

    Apparently, One Conservative Bully

    [ January 18, 2002: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]
     

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