Civic Ignorance How Bad Is It?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Dec 20, 2010.

  1. poncho

    poncho
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  2. Salty

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    I watched a little less than half - and assuming those stats are correct - it is very sad

    Though I would like to see what the educators had to say about it
     
  3. poncho

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    Educators?
     
  4. SRBooe

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    Is it any wonder how the U.S. got to be in the condition it is in today?

    It's not ONLY college students.

    It seems to be a problem with most of our voters, as well.
     
  5. SpiritualMadMan

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    Dismal...

    But, thanks for posting...

    Have added to my facebook page...
     
  6. glfredrick

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    How many high schools actually feature a study of civics? There is typically a social studies class, but much time is devoted to the study of everything other than the function and documents of our own government.

    I have noticed that foreign immigrants who take the citizenship test have a higher and better knowledge of our nation's history and government than do typical high school or college students.

    A couple of mistakes I see every day in the news:

    • America is a democracy
    • We vote directly for President
    • The President can make laws and/or "do something" to change the way things are in America
    • Congress (House and Senate) are our leaders/rulers
    • The Constitution is archaic
    • The Supreme Court can legislate
    • Federal Government is supposed to have the power and control that it exercises
    • The Federal Reserve is a part of our government
    • "The people" is interpreted different ways depending on which Amendment is considered
    • Federal Government can own large tracts of land
    • Government is watching out for our best interests
    • Federal Government has the right and authority to manage States and other entities such as education, environment, drugs, food, transportation, etc.

    There are others, but these pop into my mind immediately.
     
  7. billwald

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    If our founding fathers expected college students to lead the country then they were referring to the very rich class of people because in 1800 most people who went to college were rich people who didn't need a job or who wanted to study theology.

    from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher_education_in_the_United_States

    History

    Religious denominations established most early colleges in order to train ministers. In New England there was an emphasis on literacy so that people could read the Bible. Harvard College was founded by the colonial legislature in 1636, and named after an early benefactor. Most of the funding came from the colony, but the college early began to collect endowment. Harvard at first focused on training young men for the ministry, and won general support from the Puritan colonies. William and Mary College was founded by Virginia government in 1693, with 20,000 acres (81 km2) of land for an endowment, and a penny tax on every pound of tobacco, together with an annual appropriation. James Blair, the leading Anglican minister in the colony, was president for 50 years, and the college won the broad support of the Virginia gentry, most of whom were Anglicans, and trained many of the lawyers, politicians, and leading planters. Students headed for the ministry were given free or in tuition. Yale College was founded in 1701, and in 1716 was relocated to New Haven, Connecticut. The conservative Puritan ministers of Connecticut had grown dissatisfied with the more liberal theology of Harvard, and wanted their own school to train orthodox ministers. New Side Presbyterians in 1747 set up the College of New Jersey, in the town of Princeton; much later it was renamed Princeton University. Rhode Island College was begun by the Baptists in 1764, and in 1804 it was renamed Brown University in honor of a benefactor. Round was especially liberal in welcoming young men from other denominations. In New York City, the Anglicans set up kings College in 1746, with its president Doctor Samuel Johnson the only teacher. It closed during the American Revolution, and reopened in 1784 under the name of Columbia College; it is now Columbia University. The Academy of Pennsylvania was created in 1749 by Benjamin Franklin and other civic minded leaders in Philadelphia, and unlike the others was not oriented toward the training of ministers. It was renamed the University of Pennsylvania in 1791. the Dutch Reform Church in 1766 set up Queens College in New Jersey, which later became Rutgers University. Dartmouth College, chartered in 1769, grew out of school for Indians, and was moved to its present site in Hanover, New Hampshire, in 1770.[12][13]
    All of the schools were small, with a limited undergraduate curriculum oriented on the liberal arts. Students were drilled in Greek, Latin, geometry, ancient history logic, ethics and rhetoric, with few discussions and no lab sessions. The college president typically in try to enforce strict discipline, and the upperclassman enjoyed hazing the freshman. Many students were younger than 17, and most of the colleges also operated a preparatory school. There were no organized sports, or Greek-letter fraternities, but the literary societies were active. Tuition was very low and scholarships were few.[14]
    There were no schools of law in the colonies. However, a few lawyers studied at the highly prestigious Inns of Court in London, while the majority served apprenticeships with established American lawyers.[15] Law was very well established in the colonies, compared to medicine, which was in rudimentary condition. In the 18th century, 117 Americans had graduated in medicine in Edinburgh, Scotland, but most physicians learned as apprentices in the colonies.[16] In Philadelphia, the Medical College of Philadelphia was founded in 1765, and became affiliated with the university in 1791. In New York, the medical department of King's College was established in 1767, and in 1770 awarded the first American M.D. degree.[17]
    [edit]

    from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Census

    Num Year Date Taken Population Notes
    1 1790 August 2, 1790 3,929,326
    2 1800 August 4, 1800 5,308,483
    3 1810 August 6, 1810 7,239,881
    4 1820 August 7, 1820 9,638,453
    5 1830 June 1, 1830 12,866,020
     
  8. billwald

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    >A couple of mistakes I see every day in the news:
    America is a democracy

    America is (was) a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. Big deal!

    The US is now a hegemony of international corporations.
     
  9. glfredrick

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    Nope...

    The US is a Republic. And yes, it is a BIG DEAL that we are not a pure democracy. If you do not understand the difference, it would be good to do a bit of reading.

    Edit: Here is a good link:
    http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.html

    Oh, and yes, we ARE a capitalistic society, where it is perfectly acceptable for persons and corporations to make money without the "king" conscripting that money at will. We sort of fought a war over that issue way back when...
     
    #9 glfredrick, Dec 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 21, 2010
  10. Salty

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    Doesnt need to - remember he has an IQ of 150
     
  11. glfredrick

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    Mine is higher... But I still read. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  12. abcgrad94

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    The high school I attended didn't offer civics. We had a little chapter in history that covered the branches of government and how they balanced each other, and we learned the preamble to the constitution. We also read a copy of the constitution.
     
  13. rbell

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    Representative republic, not democracy.

    And if you don't see the "big deal," then you are stunningly ignorant regarding our Founding Fathers' views on "mob rule."
     
  14. billwald

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    rbell - exactly what does "republic" mean to you? To me and the dictionary it means we do not have a king or queen. Bid deal. China is a republic and England is a monarchy.
     
  15. Salty

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    Actually the United Kingdom is a Constitutional Monarchy - and China - well if you calling a dog a cat, does not make it a cat.

    Note: England is not a country

    David Lamb & Jim - would you agree with the link above?
     
  16. preachinjesus

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    The greatest argument against democracy is 10 minutes with the average voter. I think Churchill said that...he also said it is the worst form of government, except all the others which have been tried.

    If we think we are educating people by pushing them through cattle farm public schools/colleges/universities we are deceiving ourselves. One must take responsibility for their own education or be left to deal with the cost of not having it.
     
  17. glfredrick

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    Your words carry more weight than you think, but not in your own favor.
     
  18. SRBooe

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    I noticed that, too.

    When the citizenry do not understand how their government is supposed to work, it is dangerous for them to be permitted to vote. Unfortunately, that horse has left the barn.
     

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