Clearing my name!!

Did I Pass Your Test, Or What????

 

Your selective reading of the argument does not invalidate it.

Your selective reading, which is, sadly, all to typical for you, missed an important fact: There was never a time when Jesus was not divine and there was never a time when Adam was.

Adam, not being divine, could sin and did. Jesus, being divine, could not sin and never did.

The Archangel

 

In fact, you have. ONE person made that statement and I took issue with it along with several others as evidenced by this thread started by Willis. So, what "crew" are you referring to exactly, if indeed you haven't misrepresented anyone?

No I didn't. I said I didn't agree and it was poorly worded. Once again you have failed to read or you are intentionally misrepresenting me.

No, I suggested that if you read his comments in context of the rest of the discussion that it SEEMED to be about defining the concepts involved in the discussion, but that it was poorly worded and I disagreed.

Yes, I read that and it reminded me of my children when they disagree, which reminds me why I stopped responding to your posts.

Have a great one!

 

I asked these questions to point out the real distinction being debated here.

I alluded to it earlier, but clearly you don't believe Christ ever really had a human nature, but only human flesh. Why? Because to suggest he had a human nature would mean Jesus was corruptible (able to choose to sin), as Adam was prior to the fall, right or wrong? Please expound.

BTW, I don't believe Jesus had a sin nature, but I do believe he was able to sin, but just not willing to sin.

Sound familiar?

 

There's No Doubt that Satan Believed.....

....That Jesus was susceptible to temptation and falling to sin.

Of course, he was left with "egg" all over his his face! :laugh:

 

[QUOTE=psalms109:31;1724675]

I believe that Jesus the living soul, resisted unto blood, striving against sin. From Heb. 12:4 And Luke 22:41-44 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

This was the obedience of faith that brought salvation to man. The Faith by which we can be saved. Paul says, But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Faith came when Jesus was obedient unto death on the cross.
It was revealed by God the Father raising him from the dead. Paul once again. And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

In verse 40 he had told his disciples this. And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
He came back and found them sleeping and then again said. Verse 46
And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

I would say he was tempted being born of Mary a living soul subject to death.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Was this David praying for David or was this a prayer of the Christ.

 

We all have a human nature. Every human nature is sinful, inherited from Adam. We are conceived that way. We sin shortly after we are born. It is natural. One doesn't have to teach children to lie, but they do have to teach them to tell the truth.
Our human natures therefore are sinful natures. We inherited them from Adam.

Consider the context.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (Hebrews 2:16-17)
--What has the "seed of Abraham got to do with it?
The context is speaking of the purpose why Christ came to earth. He came to be made "like his brethren." How is that?
1. He came as a man to suffer as a man having a nature as a man.
2. He came not like any man, but a Jewish man, a despised race.
3. He came not just as a Jew, but as a priest.
4. He came not just as a priest but a priest after the order of Melchizedek to whom Abraham paid tithes contrasted to Aaronic priesthood of Levi.

All men--both Jew and Gentile, are sinners.

None. The sin nature is inherited by Adam. Jesus did not inherit a sin nature because he was born of a virgin. This is why the virgin birth was absolutely necessary.
However, he was human in every other possible way. He could have sinned but didn't. He was tired, hungered, wept, had compassion, showed mercy, slept, etc. All of this showed his humanity--his human nature, and yet in all of this he sinned not. He was tempted by Satan for 40 days and 40 nights and did not sin. He was tempted in all ways such as we are. He could only endure such temptation if he had a human nature as we. He did except that it was not contaminated with sin, as ours is.

He was fully God and fully man at the same time--the God-Man.

 

Willis,

:applause::applause::wavey:.................

 

Winman,

No....do not need to....I have it right. Your wrong idea on the whole chapter does not mean I need to try again.
I could list several commentators who say the same as I have and more...but as I posted earlier...you are not looking for an answer.

 

exactly correct Willis....bullseye!:thumbs:

 

I do not believe Jesus could sin...never
a google search shows this.....


http://www.letusreason.org/Doct3.htm

http://www.gotquestions.org/could-Jesus-have-sinned.html

 

What a low estimation of God I see within this thread along with other false teachings.

[Edit - Offensive Comments] Well, it's not just "suggested", it's taught as doctrine. But as we know this to be truth; if ones fundamental beliefs are in error, so will those other beliefs be that are built thereupon.

This is a clear indication of one not knowing theology, and one not knowing enough or much about the true character and nature of Holy God.

Willis has it correct, if the savior could have sinned, (even if he had a sin nature and never sinned), then any old normal prophet could die for our sins. The thought is even blasphemous, [Edit - Offensive Comments] , and it needed to be stated.

[Edit - Offensive Comments] and then he has the audacity to end the false teaching with a smiley (that God can sin)?

I await the cheerleaders to rush in now and support him in his teachings.

 

I was off here this weekend, and just found this thread started by Willis. Since it is apparent he is calling me out on this thread, it is my duty to respond.

First I will say that I am on the fence regarding this. I have ALWAYS believed Jesus to NOT have a sin nature. I also have no problem admitting that there is a clear tension and mystery here that NOBODY understands no matter how many people on this thread have took a stab at it. I see nothing but subjectivity based on our finite minds, and I admit my understanding is based on the same thing.

I first challenge Willis or anyone to prove that merely having a sin nature (what the Bible refers to as flesh) makes one a sinner.

I also would like Willis or anyone to prove that for Jesus to have a sin nature (what the Bible refers to as the flesh) would be heretical. Nobody is saying Jesus was a sinner, btw, so leave presuppositions out of it.

I also would like Willis to back his claim that for Jesus to have a sin nature would have lessened His sacrifice made on behalf of us and how it would have violated Him being the perfect sacrificial lamb. The symbolism of having no blemish pertains to NOT sinning...not having a sin nature. If memory serves me correct, the High Priest still chose a lamb that was under the curse, and based on what we know about death entering creation through sin, animal life did not die pre-fall.

Scripture states Jesus mas human in every way WE are human. There is only two ways this can be...NONE of us have a sin nature...or post fall ALL humanity has one. There can be no middle view on this which would lead to Jesus NOT being human in every way we are.

Pre-fall Adam did not have a sin nature, hence he was created not to die. Once he sinned, death and the curse spread to EVERY man, Jesus included (if He is indeed 100% man as Scripture states). Christ died. Now, if Christ had no nature like post-fall man, and instead had the nature of Adam...why was He affected by the curse, why was He not as the first Adam where death came ONLY by sinning?

Explain how one can be tempted if there is no temptation? I keep reading on here how Christ could NOT have sinned...yet he was tempted to do just that, and was tempted in EVERY way WE are according to Scripture. Impossible to be tempted based on the very definition...kind of like the cal's "choice" consisting of only one thing which also violates the very meaning. Temptation is defined as "A desire to do something, esp. something wrong or unwise". Was Jesus tempted...or wasn't He? Let's not add to the definition, or add an "yeah, but..." to it...was He tempted, or was He not? Should be a clear answer based on what Scripture says.

Like I said, I hold no concrete position on this view, but to deny the clear tensions created by the hypostatic union is pure foolishness on anyone wishing to do so. To claim to have all the answers on this subject is purely prideful. Fact is, according to what I read in the Bible, we DON'T know entirely what and how the flesh and propensity to sin all works together, meaning to throw the "heretical", term around in this subject is pure hyperbole (not to mention the need to "clear someone's name") and completely uncalled for. I'm actually surprised someone like Willis would stoop to such a level as it is quite out of character for him to do so.