Clouds without water

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by dianetavegia, Jun 8, 2005.

  1. dianetavegia

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    Do these pretenders know they are not saved or are they blinded by their own 'playing church'?
     
  2. shannonL

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    All I can say is your going to get a lot of reply on this one.
     
  3. blackbird

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    "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the eyes of them that believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."--2Corinthians 4:3-4

    Any Meteorologist worth a paycheck will tell you that the only cloud that does not contain water----is a fake cloud--a real cloud is really water!! So a clould without water is a fake cloud!!!!
     
  4. dianetavegia

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    Dark clouds, troublemakers, false teachers, promising God's love and yet having no light within.

    What about Twice Dead? Dead in their sin and dead in Christ.... and yet allowed to partake communion and dwell among Christians!

     
  5. Marcia

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    I don't think we can know the answer to that, nor do I think we should speculate since only God can know something like that. There are probably some in both camps -- con artists and those who are deceived themselves.

    But it's enough to know that they are deceiving others and we are to warn the sheep about them.
     
  6. dianetavegia

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    Not having the Spirit says 'unsaved' to me.

    Jude 1:16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage. 17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are sensual persons, who cause divisions, not having the Spirit.
     
  7. AVL1984

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    Marking for notification of postings. [​IMG]
     
  8. HankD

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    Personally Diane, I identify these with the "tares" of Matthew 13, sown among the wheat by the enemy (the devil) to eventually be gathered and burned in a furnace of fire

    Matthew 13
    40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
     
  9. Artimaeus

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    I think some of both and varying degress of each. I don't think this is a cop out but merely a description of the situation. I think the vast majority are willfully and knowingly unsaved. They are trying to succeed in religion and think this is what the emphasis should be rather than Christ. Christ is considered as one of the aspects of their concept of being religious.
     
  10. dianetavegia

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    This also reminds me of these verses:

    Luke 13:25 When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open for us,' and He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know you, where you are from,' 26 then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.' 27 But He will say, 'I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.'

    I think many are unaware because of being 'raised in church' or attending those 'I'm okay, you're okay' type sermons. [​IMG]
     
  11. AVL1984

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    It's possible, Diane. I heard a sermon the other day about people who were raised in Christian homes but whom had never accepted Christ as their saviour, yet considered themselves "second generation Christians". How sad to think that so many are trying to get into Heaven on their parent's, siblings or relatives salvation. I noticed in our church at Northside, some of the sermons were getting to be "I'm Okay, you're okay", Diane, and that was one of the many things I kept praying about. I'm so glad the Lord moved us here and that we're in Midland Baptist! Bro Monty is a strong preacher of the Word, though not a ranting, raving lunatic!
     
  12. dianetavegia

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    I know it's not for us to judge the other man's heart, but if we test their fruits or if their lives SCREAM 'I need Jesus', I think we'd be wrong not to approach them and lovingly ask about their salvation experience. I'd really hate to not ask and find out someone I loved was not saved.

    We had to ask my step father. He was raised Salvation Army and refused to talk about God, go to church, pray at meals.... and he'd never asked about the salvation of his grandchildren or great grandchildren. It was THEY who asked HIM not long before he died.
     
  13. APuritanMindset

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    I don't think we can know the answer to that, nor do I think we should speculate since only God can know something like that. There are probably some in both camps -- con artists and those who are deceived themselves.

    But it's enough to know that they are deceiving others and we are to warn the sheep about them.
    </font>[/QUOTE]For certain men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (Jude 1:4 HCSB)

    I think we CAN know the answer to her question because the context of the verse shows it to us. These people are obviously and knowingly out to deceive.

    First, they are "ungodly". We all know what an "ungodly" person is like. They may be a good person, but there is always something about them that shouts "UNSAVED!" at us.

    Second, they have turned the grace of God into promiscuity. Sounds much like TBN doesn't it? "God wants you to be rich". It's not just them though. There are other ways that people knowingly turn the grace of God into promiscuity, and the best way is the 3rd thing mentioned in this verse I showed.

    They have denied Jesus. Joel Osteen, Paul Crouch, Benny Hinn, some of the silly "churches" in your local area are preaching gospels that don't preach the true Jesus of the Bible. These people know what they are doing. They are out to make a buck. They won't come out and say it, but if you listen to their teachings, you will easily be able to tell.

    So, looking at the verses posed by Diane, the context seems to indicate that these people are WELL aware of what they are doing. And they were "designated for this judgment long ago".
     
  14. dianetavegia

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    Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.

    Matthew 24:11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.

    Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

    Mark 13:22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

    Luke 6:26 Woe to you when all men speak well of you, For so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

    1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
     
  15. Marcia

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    I didn't think the question was whether they were unsaved or not. I don't think false teachers are saved.

    I thought the question was
    So my answer was that some know they are not saved and are like con men and the others are not saved but are deceived and believe their own false teachings.

    Well, I'm still not going to say they are purposely deceiving although they may be. But they are definitely twisting God's word and deceiving.
     
  16. dianetavegia

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    You're correct Marcia but later I added MORE of the verses in that chapter to include the second remarks.

    I enjoy Bible study and discussions and since my days are spent with 3 year olds, this is it! [​IMG]
     
  17. blackbird

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    If you think about "clouds without water"----you know they are fake---right????

    But go outside on just about any Summer day----lay down in the grass with your face facing the sky!!! Now----just watch the clouds pass by in formation!!

    In Jude's epistle---the fake clouds look just like the real ones----but there is a difference between the fake and the real---to the Israelite farmer who depends on the water that falls from those clouds!!! About the only thing that a fake cloud CAN'T produce----is RAIN!!! To the farmer they are just like the Tare---clouds without water are good for nothin'!!!!!
     
  18. AVL1984

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    Yes, Amen! Mmmm....yes..yayuh...yes Amen! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. shannonL

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    If they were designated to this judgement long ago as Jude 4 says is it not irrelevant if they know or not? Its interesting to ponder but what does it do to know the answer. It won't change their way.
     
  20. shannonL

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    Also, isn't it interesting that the best looking counterfeit is one that looks the most like the real thing.? Christians need to be careful.
     

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