College and the Bible

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Askjo, May 29, 2003.

  1. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Many Bible colleges have their stand on which Bible version to use. Some colleges are in the Westcott & Hort camp, some are in the Textus Receptus camp, and this influences which version they use. Are you familiar with this?
     
  2. go2church

    go2church
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    6
    I am but the preferences that I have seen usually come from the KJV only camp. There are some classes that I have taken in seminary that the prof. asked for the class to have a specific version.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    In my college/grad school we used a great variety of Greek texts (there really are not that great of differences folks) and it led to some interesting discussions.

    It is the "onlies" that have become divisive in this matter as they seek a Greek text to support their English translation (and condemn with regularity any other English version).

    But apart from a few of their extreme sectarian schools, I think most colleges/seminaries will allow great freedom and latitude in this matter.
     
  4. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very true.
     
  5. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, Bible colleges have three camps: KJV/TR, KJV/Critical Text, and modern versions/Critical Text. A long time ago, 75 percent of Bible Colleges were TR, but today, many colleges have changed their position. For example, Tennessee Temple University was TR a long time ago, but right now they are WH. My question is, why the change? Let me ask you this: Do you know that Westcott and Hort were unbelievers? Not only were they unbelievers, but they produced a new Critical Text!
     
  6. neal4christ

    neal4christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did you know them personally? Or the more pressing question, are you God?

    Neal
     
  7. Arubian Baptist

    Arubian Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did you know them personally? Or the more pressing question, are you God?

    Neal
    </font>[/QUOTE]Was Charles Spurgeon a believer?...Did you know them personally? Or the more pressing question, are you God?

    Perhaps your answer is no, but...you might say, by their fruit you know....
     
  8. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did you know them personally? Or the more pressing question, are you God?

    Neal
    </font>[/QUOTE]No, I am not God! I researched on Westcott and Hort. Hort rejected the infallibility of Scripture. Hort's interest is in the works of Charles Darwin, while he and Westcott rejected the literal account of Creation. Westcott did not believe in the Second Coming of Christ or a literal Heaven. Both men rejected the doctrine of a literal Hell. They supported prayers for the dead in purgatory. Westcott was a communist by nature. Westcott was a believer in Mary worship, and Hort believed that Mary worship had a lot in common with Jesus worship. Hort kept Roman Catholic sacraments.

    Based on the above, do you think they were Christians?
     
  9. neal4christ

    neal4christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    If they confessed faith in Jesus Christ and His resurrection, who am I to say otherwise? Yes, I would not agree with many of their other doctrines, but does that put me in position to say they aren't Christians? I wouldn't be so arrogant to judge. It is between them and God.

    What is required for salvation? Perfect doctrine? I hope not. We would be in a lot of trouble. [​IMG]

    Neal
     
  10. neal4christ

    neal4christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    If he was one by nature, why are you giving the guy such a hard time? He couldn't help it! [​IMG]

    Neal
     
  11. neal4christ

    neal4christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    Huh? I am not the one going around claiming I know a person's salvation status. If someone confesses faith in Jesus Christ and His resurrection, there is not much I can do. I wouldn't be so arrogant to claim to know a person's salvation status. That is between him and God. I can have what I think, but I wouldn't spread it as rock solid truth like Askjo did. He did not say, "I think...." but instead said that they were not believers. Big difference. Just because you think something does not necessarily make it right.

    Neal
     
  12. neal4christ

    neal4christ
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Messages:
    1,815
    Likes Received:
    0
    Correct me if I am wrong (I would prefer it from a non-KJVO), but today's Critical Text is not the one WH produced. So it is not accurate to say that a college is WH, unless of course they really used the text produced by WH. Just wanted to make sure that CT (as it stands today) does not equal WH.

    Neal
     
  13. Archangel7

    Archangel7
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    0
    Correct me if I am wrong (I would prefer it from a non-KJVO), but today's Critical Text is not the one WH produced. So it is not accurate to say that a college is WH, unless of course they really used the text produced by WH. Just wanted to make sure that CT (as it stands today) does not equal WH.

    Neal
    </font>[/QUOTE]The CT is not the same as the WH text; however, the CT resembles the WH text more than the TR or the MT. It should be noted that *all* Greek texts are in complete agreement for some 90% of the text, and disagree only in those 10% or so places where there are textual variants. It should also be noted that none of these disagreements affects a single major Christian doctrine that is not clearly taught elsewhere in Scripture.
     
  14. Arubian Baptist

    Arubian Baptist
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    0
    Neal4christ:
    Are you sure, to me you are judging every time whis is "probably" saved or unsaved.

    If you keep insisting that you are not that arrogant, so, then tell me why...why are you giving people you meet the Gospel message of Salvation??? How would you know if they are not already saved? Aren't you judging here?

    And to make things a little bit complicater, did you ever gave your Pastor the plan of Salvation?...Did you ever tried to lead your Pastor to salvation?..If not, why not?? Aren't you judging there?

    You see, we are all judging somehow en somewhere, sometimes we just base our judgement, upon what we can see in someones life, on what we know of them en how they behave or claim to believe...we do judge each time...because you cannot know for 100% if someone is saved or not.

    The best thing however for the Westcott and Hort to say would be something like this: Based on the life and practice and believes of the Westcott and Hort I do have a reasonable doubt that they were truly saved"

    By the Way, thank you Askjo for your input [​IMG]
     
  15. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,454
    Likes Received:
    93
    Thanks a million for clearing up that urgent dilemma!
     
  16. Pastork

    Pastork
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2002
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I attended Columbia Bible College (now Columbia International University), they preferred to use the NASB as the "classroom" Bible, due to the fact that it was in more modern english but was also quite literal. They explained that for more in-depth English bible study these attributes made the NASB more suitable for the classroom. However, they took no particular stand in favor of one translation over another overall.

    When I attended Covenant Theological Seminary, there were no requirements at all about a particular translation or Greek or Hebrew text. However, as far as I know the professors were uniformly using the UBS 3rd Greek text and the BHS Hebrew text, and we were expected to be able to follow along and keep up with the discussion.

    Pastork
     
  17. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not knowing them, No, I do not know this. And you don't either. How much of their stuff have you actually read and how much of this are you basing on what other's have said? It is well known that many in the KJVO camp have told lies about these men.

    However, and more importantly, it makes not difference. It does not take a great amount of spirituality to participate in textual criticism. No one has ever shown that it does. The job of the textual critic (whether Erasmus, Westcott and Hort, Scrivener, Metzger, Robinson and Pierpont, Hodges and Farstad, etc--that includes all camps), is to try to construct what the original autograph said. The KJV is based on textual criticism. Erasmus produced a critical text (and messed up very badly in some places). The MajText is a critical text; the Eclectic text is a critical text. In fact, it is impossible to have a Greek text without textual criticism.

    With respect to colleges and seminaries, most orthodox evangelical colleges and seminaries use either the UBS4 or the NA27/28. A few use the TR or one of the Majority texts.
     
  18. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are welcome! [​IMG]
     
  19. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not knowing them, No, I do not know this. And you don't either. How much of their stuff have you actually read and how much of this are you basing on what other's have said? It is well known that many in the KJVO camp have told lies about these men. </font>[/QUOTE]Which groups of the KJV onlyists that you said they told lies?
     
  20. Askjo

    Askjo
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not knowing them, No, I do not know this. And you don't either. How much of their stuff have you actually read and how much of this are you basing on what other's have said? It is well known that many in the KJVO camp have told lies about these men. </font>[/QUOTE]Dean John william Burgon confronted Westcott and Hort and refuted their Critical Text. Read Dean Burgon's book, "The Revision Revised." This book will tell you 4 things: 1) Dean refuted the false Greek text of Westcott and Hort; 2) He demolishes the theory behind that text; 3) He refuted the 1881 ERV and 4) He defends the KJV.
     

Share This Page

Loading...