Columbia Evangelical Seminary

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by poodle78, Jan 9, 2005.

  1. poodle78

    poodle78
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    Does anyone have any knowledge of or experience with Columbia Evangelical Seminary? This is Rick Walston's school.

    Thanks.
     
  2. Saint

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    Much has been written about it and can be viewed at degreeinfo.com.
     
  3. paidagogos

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    I am not overly impressed. It's a fairly small operation with limited resources. I would recommend the SA DE schools over CEV. Thery're cheaper too. Although they do claim James White as an alumunus, I do not know anyone with a reputation who graduated from there. What you get depends on who your mentors are.
     
  4. Jabbezzz

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    Which is exactly what one gets regardless of the school one attends.
     
  5. paidagogos

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    Which is exactly what one gets regardless of the school one attends. </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, at larger schools you get several rolls but at a one-horse operation you get basically one roll of the dice. So many others have rolled snake-eyses that you have almost no supporting reputation. Columbia what? :confused: Where's that?

    (BTW, just how did Walston settle on this name? Some think it is too close to Columbia International University, a well-respected school. I know what he says, but another choice would have been more comfortable for me.)
     
  6. Jabbezzz

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    Perhaps he was lying, Paidagogos. Email the guy and ask him......... [​IMG]
     
  7. Rhetorician

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    Hey gang,

    I am new to the board. But it would seem to me that we should not imply or state openly that someone has told a lie. I am one of the mentors @ CES and have found the programs rigorous. The programs are designed for people who may not be able to make the move and pay the price I did in my 30s & 40s and into my 50s to EARN five degrees four of which are accredited seminaries.

    CES fits a niche that many of the schools cannot. FYI! There are now SBC seminary profs who have a credential from the University of South Africa and such. We may want to have/show a bit more grace and understanding when we start charging one of God's servants with lying.

    Just my considered opinion.
     
  8. Jabbezzz

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    Hey Rhet:

    I was not suggesting that Ric Walston was lying, rather, I was using sarcasm in response to particular poster's remarks about not believing CES's reason for using the name Columbia....... [​IMG]
     
  9. UZThD

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    Some may not know that CES (what there is of it) is very close to the Columbia River.

    I'm wondering if Rhet is comparing CES favorably to South African universities in terms of utility and if so what is the rationale for that.
     
  10. PatsFan

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    Rhet,
    Welcome to the board. I'm kind of intrigued by CES.How does it work, do the mentor and the student decide together which classes a student needs for a particular doctoral program? Do the students generally listen to lecture tapes or is it mostly independent reading and writing papers?
     
  11. Rhetorician

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    PatsFan,

    About CES: A student picks a Mentor from the ones on the web page (you can go there and see my ugly mug). They begin a dialogue about what they want/need in the program be it BA, masters, or doctorate. Then they write a separate syllabus for each class. I will guarantee that it is not your "fly by night" diploma mill. The main drawback I see is the exposure to many scholars on the graduate level. But then again, a person could change mentors in the middle of his or her program. It is set up loosely on the British model where one "reads" for their degree.

    In my DMin I did rigorous work. I did 39 PhD hrs in Rhetoric and Communication with a world renown scholar at a public university. I then transferred to Sewanee and did a rhetorical analysis on John Paul II Jubilee Apology. I brought together rhetoric, Christian Thought, and ethics. I have "been around the block" if you will. I have three advanced degrees, two of which came from outside SBC ranks, and two degrees from SBC schools. CES looks good to me for those who cannot move their families across country and take the financial hit like God called me to do.

    FYI!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  12. Broadus

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    I know of little about CES other than James R. White's having received his doctorates through Columbia. I did look, however, at the stated credentials of the faculty, and most received their terminal degrees from regionally accredited or similarly recognized institutions.

    The regents, though, are a different story. I don't think any has received a terminal degree from an RA. I'm not sure how much of an issue that would be or even if it's an issue.

    Bill
     
  13. paidagogos

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    Hey Rhet:

    I was not suggesting that Ric Walston was lying, rather, I was using sarcasm in response to particular poster's remarks about not believing CES's reason for using the name Columbia....... [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE][​IMG] So, your sarcasm caught up with you! Now, you're defensive. :D Go back and read my post with your glasses on. I did not say he was lying but that it was too close to be comfortable. Others have questioned his veracity perhaps. Don't you think that Walston was savvy enough to recognize the possible confusion with Columbia International University? Perhaps he made a poor choice but it does not necessarily mean that he was lying. One must learn to read carefully and accurately without imposing his own presuppositions. :cool:
     
  14. paidagogos

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    Savvy
    CES is not a degree mill pe se. However, one cannot say that it is a high quality school. Having credentialed faculty does not necessarily make a quality institution although a qualified faculty is a component of a quality institution. Faculty alone does not assure quality. Some defunct and discredited secular distance education schools (e.g. Columbia Pacific University and Clayton University) have put together an impressive array of talent. A lot depends on Walston who is the chief architect of the school. His ideas of scholarship and education differ somewhat from my own. Therefore, my opinion of CES is blasé. Although CES is not a degree mill, such as Christian Bible College, etc., it is definitely not in the same class as the SA DE schools.

    IMHO, the weakness of CES is the variability of the mentors exacerbated by the weakness of institutional design. Whereas a highly motivated and bright student under one demanding mentor may do outstanding work, another less competent student under a lax mentor may do decidedly second-rate work. Although there is variability in RA schools, the institutional structure and philosophy keep a higher degree of accountability and rigor for the less motivated students and faculty.

    On the other hand, a really sharp cookie can write his ticket as he pleases with a weak institution.
    :cool:
     
  15. Rhetorician

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    CES is not a degree mill pe se. However, one cannot say that it is a high quality school. Having credentialed faculty does not necessarily make a quality institution although a qualified faculty is a component of a quality institution. Faculty alone does not assure quality. Some defunct and discredited secular distance education schools (e.g. Columbia Pacific University and Clayton University) have put together an impressive array of talent. A lot depends on Walston who is the chief architect of the school. His ideas of scholarship and education differ somewhat from my own. Therefore, my opinion of CES is blasé. Although CES is not a degree mill, such as Christian Bible College, etc., it is definitely not in the same class as the SA DE schools.

    IMHO, the weakness of CES is the variability of the mentors exacerbated by the weakness of institutional design. Whereas a highly motivated and bright student under one demanding mentor may do outstanding work, another less competent student under a lax mentor may do decidedly second-rate work. Although there is variability in RA schools, the institutional structure and philosophy keep a higher degree of accountability and rigor for the less motivated students and faculty.

    On the other hand, a really sharp cookie can write his ticket as he pleases with a weak institution.
    :cool:
    </font>[/QUOTE]
     
  16. PatsFan

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    Rhet, Thanks for the info. I'm in an RA/ATS accredited D.Min. program presently that I'm very happy with. I enjoy looking at catalogs and curricula, though. It's sort of a hobby. I find distance ed and alternative programs quite interesting. I saw your info at CES. You have impressive credentials. May God richly bless your ministry.
     
  17. Rhetorician

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    You make some very good points. A couple of things come to mind:

    First, it is a good place for those who want ministry training to go and get their education. It is especially good for those who are locked into life circumstances.

    Secondly, let us not assume that everyone who has a world renown degree, even a doctorate from Harvard or Yale or such, has a world class eduction. They produce some "clunkers" also. Big mame institutions do not necessarily produce scholars. However, CES can produce ministers and scholars. One of my colleagues has and does teach at GGBTS from time to time. I believe you cited his name in a former message.

    As I said before in another post, it does fill a niche for some who may not get Christian Ed any other way. And there are folk who have graduated and have gone on to fully accredited schools to do graduate work. Their degree from CES was the basis for their entrance.

    Of course I have a vested interest but would like my opinion to be considered because I am an academic. I have taught in two disciplines for 8 years and have three advanced degrees two of which are from traditions outside of my own.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  18. Rhetorician

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  19. Rhetorician

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    Concerning the South African degrees;

    I am not sure I have enough info to compare them to CES. I have looked at their programs very seriously in the past, especially UNISA. My wife said "not with this wife you don't" after help me get five degrees. I wanted an accredited PhD or ThD so I could teach at the grad school or seminary level.

    I do, however, know of several who have the UNISA degree in hand or are working toward it. Dorothy Patterson, Paige's wife has one. Ergun Caner of Criswell College/Liberty U. I think has one. One of my colleagues who teaches at an SBC seminary with the DMin was asked to get an "earned doctorate" and he is pursuing one. So, until the US establishment "AKA" regional accreditation stops them; I think they are perfectly good for what you get. My understanding is that the dissertation is really rigorous.

    By the by: It may be "sour grapes," But, I went to the web page and really did not see anyone with whom I would want to study. Most of their profs had degrees from UNISA and other schools in S Africa.

    My considered opinion!

    sdg!

    rd
     
  20. paidagogos

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    This is true but the fact that we see equal acceptance of less than wonderful degrees along side of respected credentials tells you something of how they view scholarship. Don’t you think?

    In some DE circles, we typically see this arrangement as if the respectability of the adjunct faculty will rub off on the less than wonderful sheepskins of the officers and administration. (Note: For many years, the president of Walden University had a mere masters—he wonderfully resisted the temptation to accrue one or more doctorates for himself.) Somehow, I don’t think scholarship works exactly this way.

    BTW, I may point out that adjunct faculty members have other primary obligations elsewhere other than the adjunct DE faculty where they serve. My question is whether they can bring the same quality and rigor, regardless of qualifications, to a part-time position as if they were a full-time teacher with a primary obligation and commitment to the DE school. Time is a factor.

    Furthermore, faculty qualifications in any school make for only one of many factors affecting academic quality.

    Finally, I sincerely question the true purpose of less than wonderful degrees (John Bear’s term). IMHO, it is the desire for status and recognition rather than learning. If it is for learning, why not study with an expert mentor and forget the degree? Methinks the cart is before the horse. I would rather have it noted on my vitae that I was a student of Karl Popper and Thomas Kuhn than a D.Ph.Sc. from the Universal Metaphysical Graduate University of Advanced Studies for the Philosophy of Science and Human Knowledge. It really doesn’t matter how you slice it, it is still a lot of baloney!
    :D
     

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