Communion and the sick

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by MikeS, Aug 23, 2003.

  1. MikeS

    MikeS
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    Do Baptists et al take communion to the sick, the way the early Christians did? If so, why? If not, why not?
     
  2. WPutnam

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    Hi Mike! Good question indeed!

    I also add this question:

    Do the baptists anoint the sick with holy oils like the early Christians did? If not, why not? [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    Pillar and Foundation of Truth, the Church. (1 Tim 3:15)
     
  3. MikeS

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    Hi Mike! Good question indeed!
    </font>[/QUOTE]My wife actually came up with it at dinner. I thought it was a pretty good question too! Wonder why no answers?
     
  4. CatholicConvert

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    Uhhhh, Mike...

    Pffffft....why bother?

    It's not like they are taking Jesus Himself with them. It's not like it has ANYTHING to do with the reception of eternal life like Jesus said In John 6:53. It's not like it has to do with cleansing of sins and renewal of the covenant relationship.

    Heck, if they want crackers and grape juice they can go to the kitchen. [​IMG]
     
  5. WPutnam

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    Mike:

    Indeed, no replies from our non-Catholic brothers!

    CatholicConvert:

    Is that actually YOU in in the picture in your profile? you look GREAT, man! [​IMG]

    Me? I'm just a little ole man that is as harmless as can be! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    - Anima Christi -

    Soul of Christ, sanctify me.
    Body of Christ, save me.
    Blood of Christ, inebriate me.
    Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
    Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
    O good Jesus, hear me;
    Within Thy wounds hide me and permit
    me not to be separated from Thee.
    From the Wicked Foe defend me.
    And bid me to come to Thee,
    That with Thy Saints I may praise Thee,
    For ever and ever. Amen.
     
  6. dianetavegia

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    May I answer without getting into a debate? I'll just tell you what our church does. [​IMG]

    Deacons take communion to our shut-ins and those in the nursing homes or hospital. This is done as a regular ministry.

    Those wanting prayer/ laying on of hands and annointing with oil must request it, either at church, hospital, nursing home, in their private homes, etc. Only those deacons who feel seriously led to join in this goes. There is a time of prayer and preparation before this and also before taking communion to our shut-ins. This is done in a very serious atmosphere.

    We have a group of men and women who meets during this time also at the church and prays for those who are going out and for those who are being served. That same group rotates and prays during every church service in a small 'closet' type room. Our church women meet every other Monday night and pray for needs the Lord lays on our hearts.


    Thanks for your kindness guys. I hope this is what you wanted to know.

    God bless to all!
    Diane [​IMG]
     
  7. MikeS

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    Thanks, Diane. I promise not to debate! :D I know how you feel; must we always be debating everything?! I'd just like to understand the thinking behind taking communion to these absent people.
     
  8. Carson Weber

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    Bill, I think he looks like a sissy in that dress.. [​IMG] Either that or a Japanese sword-fighter - "hiyah!"
     
  9. Taufgesinnter

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    When my best friend's wife was in the hospital, we brought matzohs and grape juice to her room and had the Lord's Supper. I cannot remember if we had footwashing. As I recall, when my old bishop anointed the sick, I think he brought a little vial of olive oil.
     
  10. John Gilmore

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    Yes, we Lutherans take communion to the sick exactly the way the early Christians did according the very Words of Christ when He said, "This do."

    And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matt. 26:27, 28

    And the sick believe their sins are forgiven when they receive the precious Body and Blood of Christ from the hand of the steward of His holy mysteries, "given and shed for you for remission of your sins."

    Do Roman Catholics et al take communion to the sick, the way the early Christians did? If so, why? If not, why not?

    [ August 25, 2003, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]
     
  11. trying2understand

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    Yes.

    Question: Don't Lutherans believe that the Presence exists only as long as the church is congregated, so the left over bread is not retained for later use because it is simply bread again?

    If that is the case, how do you take communion to the sick? Is it not just bread again by the time it is taken to them?
     
  12. John Gilmore

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    Yes.</font>[/QUOTE]The early Christians followed Christ's institution and offered the sacrament to the sick in both kinds. Furthermore, only the seward of the mysteries, divinely called by Christ, and acting in the stead of and by the command of Christ, can administer the blessed sacrament. Why don't your Priests go to sick themselves and offer them the sacrament in both kinds as is done in the parish mass?

    Question: Don't Lutherans believe that the Presence exists only as long as the church is congregated, so the left over bread is not retained for later use because it is simply bread again?

    No. We simply follow Christ's command. He tells us to eat and to drink. The remaining elements are treated as the Body and Blood of Christ. But He does not tell us to retain them for later use.

    If that is the case, how do you take communion to the sick? Is it not just bread again by the time it is taken to them?

    If a layman were to consecrate and administer the Holy Supper, he would offer only empty elements. Therefore, the called minister of Christ acting in the stead and by the command of Christ, speaks the Words of Institution over the bread and wine and then offers the blessed sacrament to the sick in both kinds.
     
  13. trying2understand

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    Is Christ fully present in just the wine? Is Christ fully present in just the Bread?

    If someone were to receive communion under only one form in your church, say only the bread, would that have been a vaild communion?
    The retained elements which are taken to the sick are fully the Body, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. There would be no need for a reconsecration of the elements.


    What happens to excess elements? I have been told that at times they are simply discarded.
     
  14. John Gilmore

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    Originally posted by trying2understand:
    Is Christ fully present in just the wine? Is Christ fully present in just the Bread?

    If someone were to receive communion under only one form in your church, say only the bread, would that have been a vaild communion?


    Lutherans do not concern themselves with such hypothetical questions. We simply follow Christ’s command, “Drink ye all of it.” Matt. 26:27 A more important question for Catholics should be, “Why don’t we follow Christ’s command, ‘This do’?”

    The retained elements which are taken to the sick are fully the Body, Soul, and Divinity of Christ. There would be no need for a reconsecration of the elements.

    It seems to me the sick are being short-changed. They are not offered the sacrament in both kinds by a Priest. Do your priests have something better to do than care for the spiritual needs of sick?

    What happens to excess elements? I have been told that at times they are simply discarded.

    Some Lutherans taken a receptionist view. The moment of the Real Presence occurs when the bread and wine are received. Therefore, any remaining elements may be discarded.

    However, I believe the receptionist view is contrary to scripture and the Lutheran Confessions. Scripture does not tell us if Body and Blood of Christ is present in the remaining elements. Therefore, they must be treated as if they were the Body and Blood of Christ.
     
  15. WPutnam

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    Yeah, but the Eastern Rite vestments are cool! [​IMG]

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+

    Rome has spoken, case is closed.

    Derived from Augustine's famous Sermon.
     
  16. trying2understand

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    Not sure why you would think that receiving the Eucharist from an lay Eucharistic Minister would be some how shorting the sick. As I understand it, Lutheran churches also use lay persons to distribute communion.

    In my Church, the Eucharist is taken to the sick of our parish and at the local hospitals and nursing homes daily. This usually requires for or five Eucharistic Ministers.

    If your church is not doing the same daily, I would say it is the sick in your church that is being short changed. Would you not?
     
  17. John Gilmore

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    Originally posted by trying2understand:
    Not sure why you would think that receiving the Eucharist from an lay Eucharistic Minister would be some how shorting the sick. As I understand it, Lutheran churches also use lay persons to distribute communion.

    No Confessional Lutheran church would ever allow a layperson to distribute without a called minister being present to consecrate and administer the sacrament. No Confessional Lutheran church would ever allow a woman to distribute the Holy Supper. Male elders are permitted to distribute the Cup after the minister has given the Host. Some Lutherans find even that practice offensive.

    In my Church, the Eucharist is taken to the sick of our parish and at the local hospitals and nursing homes daily. This usually requires for or five Eucharistic Ministers.

    If your church is not doing the same daily, I would say it is the sick in your church that is being short changed. Would you not?


    The Holy Supper should be given as often as the sick request it.
     
  18. Catholic Dad

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    John,

    I think the misunderstanding is stemming from the difference in the way the Lutherans and the Catholics view the consecration. As I understand it, for the Lutherans, when the service is over, the bread and wine that was consecrated during the service reverts back to bread and wine (theologically this is probably not completely accurate but for practical purposes, I think this is the overall outcome--correct me if I am wrong.) Therefore, the minister is needed to be present at the home of the sick to consecrate the bread and wine just before it is administered.

    For the Catholics, we consider that once the bread and wine are consecrated, they remain the Body and Blood of Christ. Therefore, a lay minister can bring the Body and Blood of Christ to the sick. We also believe that Christ is truly and completely present in both species (If a body is without blood, it is usually dead). Therefore, only the consecrated Bread needs to be brought to the sick.

    In Christ,
    Learner
     
  19. trying2understand

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    "Confessional Lutheran Church"

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Apparently the practices among Lutheran churches vary from church to church.

    I failed to take into account the tradition of continued fracturing of Protestant churches.

    From the Statement on Sacramental Practices - Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada

    "6.19 ~ Congregations will provide Holy Communion for those persons who, for reasons of illness or confinement, are unable to attend public worship. As an extension of the congregation's celebration of the Eucharist, trained and designated lay members may distribute Holy Communion following the worship service."
     
  20. John Gilmore

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    "Confessional Lutheran Church"

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Apparently the practices among Lutheran churches vary from church to church.

    I failed to take into account the tradition of continued fracturing of Protestant churches.

    From the Statement on Sacramental Practices - Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada

    "6.19 ~ Congregations will provide Holy Communion for those persons who, for reasons of illness or confinement, are unable to attend public worship. As an extension of the congregation's celebration of the Eucharist, trained and designated lay members may distribute Holy Communion following the worship service."
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada is not a Confessional Lutheran church. Not only are many of their teachings contrary to the Lutheran Confessions, they are in altar fellowship with a church that denies the Real Presence. They can not be considered Lutheran.

     

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