Comparing The ESV With The MLB

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Even though the ESV came out in 2001 it sounds rather dated in many places compared with the much older Modern Language Bible (otherwise known as the New Berkeley Version). The last revision of the MLB was in 1969. That's a 32 year difference for you non-math majors.

    But since the ESV is basically a retouched 1971 RSV, it does sound old-fashioned despite what its Preface says about the language being "brought to current usage."

    I really appreciate the MLB. Even if Dave Hunt rolled his eyes at me for quoting from it at a Bible Conference years ago.

    I will quote snippets from the book of Luke to begin this thread. I will go slowly as I like to take my time.

    ESV = E; MLB = M

    Chaper 1

    verse 1
    E : Inasmuch as
    M : Now that

    v 11
    E : there appeared to him
    M : appeared to him

    v 12
    E : fear fell upon him
    M : fear got hold of him

    v 27
    E : betrothed
    M : engaged

    v 44
    E : For behold
    M : Just think

    Chapter 2

    v 23
    E : Every male who first opens the womb
    M : Every first-born male

    v 48
    E : why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been searching for you in great distress.
    M : why have You treated us this way? Your father and I have anxiously been looking for You.
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon
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    Luke

    Chapter 3

    v. 10
    E : What then shall we do?
    M : Then what should we do?

    Chapter 4

    v. 27
    E : cleansed
    M : cured

    v. 28
    E : filled with wrath
    M : felt deeply resentful

    v. 36
    E : What is this word?
    M : What teaching this is!

    Chapter 5

    v. 5
    E : we toiled all night
    M : we were working hard

    v. 15
    E : But now even more the report about him went abroad
    M : But word about Him spread even more

    v. 19
    E : into the midst before Jesus
    M : right in front of Jesus

    v. 29
    E : reclining at table
    M : sat at the table

    Chapter 6

    v. 11
    E : filled with fury
    M : maddened with anger

    v. 19
    E : sought to touch him
    M : tried to touch Him

    v. 22
    e : spurn your name as evil
    m : defame your name

    v. 38
    E : with the measure you use it will be measured back to you
    m : with the yardstick you use for measuring, it in turn will be measured to you
     
  3. Dale-c

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    What does a Bible translation like the ESV have to do with Major League Baseball?
    :)
     
  4. Dale-c

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    I have an ESV audio Bible and I have been noticing there is some dated terminology in it.
    i am not sure how much of that is in trying to be more literal or conservative.
    WHich ever it is, I don't think it is much of a problem. It is still centuries ahead of the KJV and it's very outdated language.
     
  5. Rippon

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    You can say that again.

    It's a conservative translation. It mostly retains old-fashioned phraselogy from the RSV. It attempts to be literal. Yet actually it isn't far removed from the NIV on the scale of most literal to most dynamic.

    Well, I don't know many centuries it is ahead of the KJV, but it is an improvement.
     
  6. Baptist4life

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    I just don't understand why you guys can't have a discussion without a little "dig" at the KJV. That's just a little odd.
     
  7. Rippon

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    Still making mountains out of molehills I see.
     
  8. Baptist4life

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    No, Mr. TNIVO. :laugh:
     
  9. Mexdeaf

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    You would disagree that the language of the KJV is outdated? That's a fact, not a dig. Thou dost not speak after the manner of the Elizabethans.
     
  10. Rippon

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    Why then do I quote approvingly from the MLB, NLTse, HCSB, Norlie and so many others?
     
  11. Rippon

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    Luke

    Chapter 7

    v. 21
    E : on many who were blind he bestowed sight
    M : He also gave sight to many who were blind

    Chapter 8

    v. 18
    E : and from the one who has not, even what he thinks that he has will be taken away
    M : and from one who has nothing, what he fancies he possesses will be taken away

    v. 37
    E : seized with great fear
    M : thoroughly frightened

    v. 46
    E : I perceive that power has gone out from me.
    M : I am conscious of power having gone out of Me.

    Chapter 9

    v. 25
    E : a man
    M : a person

    v. 44
    E : into the hands of men
    m : into human hands
     
  12. Baptist4life

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    This thread was comparing the ESV with the MLB. Why the need to make any comment about the KJV, the NIV, the HCSB, or any other version than the ESV or MLB?
     
  13. Trotter

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    No need to get all touchy, B4L.

    Dale made an observation that the ESV's language was not completely up to date, but much more so than the language of the KJV. The KJV has been around a long time and retains its Elizabethan language... that's just a fact, pure and simple.

    The very fact that it was brought up in comparison is a testament to the KJV's wide-spread recognition and familiarity. Dale didn't compare it to the old ASB as many are not familiar with it nor is its language four centuries old. Dale didn't compare it to the Great Bible, or the Bishop's Bible even though both use very old language. No, he compared it to the KJV because it was something we all are familiar with and could easily draw a distinction from.

    Just tonight I was struck by the different sounds of the language of different translations. In our bible study several people read different verses. The translations used included the ESV, MKJV, NIV, and KJV. Each translation had a different ring to it. True, the KJV and NKJV were more similar to one another than the others, but each was different. Each one said the same thing, but in slightly different ways. None of them said it wrong, whether it was with "you" or "thee".
     
  14. Rippon

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    Chapter 10

    v. 6
    E : and if a son of peace is there
    M : If a person who is worthy of this greeting lives there

    v. 34
    E : bound up his wounds
    M : bandaged his wounds

    Chapter 11

    v. 7
    E : from within
    m : inside

    v. 41
    E : things that are within
    M : what is inside

    v. 53
    E : began to press him hard
    M : began to heckle him

    Chapter 12

    v. 37
    E : servants
    M : slaves
    [ Greek : doulos]

    Chapter 13

    v. 32
    E : and the third day I finish my course
    M : and on the third day I shall complete My work

    Chapter 14

    v. 24
    E : none of those men
    M : none of those

    v. 32
    E : is yet a great way off
    M : is still at a good distance
     
  15. Rippon

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    Chapter 16

    v. 15
    E : You are those who justify yourselves before men
    M : You claim righteousness before human eyes

    Chapter 18

    v. 13
    E : be merciful to me, a sinner!
    M : be merciful to me, the sinner
    [Literally "the sinner". I always wanted a translation that would actually have the definite article here.]

    Chapter 19

    v. 6
    E : received him joyfully
    M : heartily welcomed Him

    v. 12
    E : to receive for himself a kingdom
    M : to acquire a kingdom for himself

    v. 23
    E : at my coming I might have collected it with interest
    M : when I came I might have gotten it with interest

    v. 34
    E : The Lord has need of it.
    M : The Lord needs it.

    v. 42
    E : Would that you, even you had known on this day the things that make for peace!
    M : If you only knew even today how you might enjoy peace!

    v. 44
    E : you did not know the time of your visitation.
    M : you did not understand when you were divinely visited.
     
  16. Rippon

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    Chapter 20

    v. 19
    E : sought to lay hands on him
    M : tried to get their hands on Him

    v. 23
    E : But he perceived their craftiness
    M : Well aware of their trickery

    v. 36
    E : they are equal to angels
    M : but are like the angels

    v. 44
    E : David thus calls him Lord
    M : So David calls Him Lord

    v. 47
    E : and for a pretense make long prayers
    M : and pray long for appearance' sake

    Chapter 21

    v. 6
    E : there will not be left here one stone upon another
    M : not one stone will be left on another

    v. 9
    E : wars and tumults
    M: wars and disturbances

    Chapter 22

    v. 6
    E : to betray him to them in the absence of a crowd
    M : to betray Him to them away from the crowd

    v. 31
    E : sift you like wheat
    M : to sift all of you like wheat
    ["you" is plural]

    Chapter 23

    v. 8
    E : hoping to see some sign done by him
    M : hoped to see Him perform some miracles

    v. 9
    E : made no answer
    M : never answered

    v. 12
    E : they had been at enmity with each other
    M : they had previously been enemies

    v. 27
    E : And there followed him a great multitude
    M : A vast host of people followed Him

    v. 44
    E : It was now about the sixth hour
    M : It was then about twelve o'clock

    Chapter 24

    v. 11
    E : but these words seemed to them like an idle tale
    M : But these reports seemed nonsense to them

    v. 22
    E : Some women of our company
    M : some of our women

    v. 25
    E : slow of heart to believe
    M : with hearts so slow to believe

    v. 27
    E : he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself
    M : He explained to them in all the Scriptures what referred to Himself

    v. 41
    E : they still disbelieved for joy
    M : they were still unable to believe for sheer joy

    v. 46
    E : Thus it is written
    M : So it is written

    v. 49
    E : I am sending the promise of my Father upon you.
    M : I will send out upon you what was promised by my father.
     
    #16 Rippon, Oct 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2009
  17. wfdfiremedic

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    I believe that the "old archaic" language is the exact point of the ESV. It provides a current translation utilizing NU text, but retains some of the beauty of the KJV etc. They did not intend for it to be a translation that utilizes complete "current english." Compare it to the HCSB. While one may say the HCSB utilizes current English language, it does not have the sophistication of the English language, as does the ESV. Note, this is my opinion.

    Personally, I tend to believe that Modern English translations are intended more for reading levels than for dynamic/formal equivalence. For instance, one that has a higher education level may know exactly what the verses of the ESV convey. However, if one does not know exactly what is referenced in regards to, "flesh" , they may do better with a NIV that conveys the meaning in more up-to-date English terminology.

    -chris
     
  18. JTornado1

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    The ESV is based on the RSV, which has rather stilted language. The Modern Language Bible does have more modern expression and is easier to read. :thumbsup:
     
  19. R. Lawson

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    Rippon,

    Does a large or giant print edition of the MLB/NBV exist? I can't seem to find one, though it is available for Bible Explorer for $20.

    Peace,
    Robb:type:
     
  20. Rippon

    Rippon
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    I forgot to capitalize several pronouns for Jesus in a number of verses for the MLB. But it would be a waste of space to go over them here.
     

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