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Comparing The ESV With The MLB

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Sep 30, 2009.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    I do not agree about the beauty aspect. I see, on the contrary, a great deal of antiquated phraselogy. The sentences are needlessly cumbersome.

    Noted. Well this unsophisicated guy prefers a more natural form of English like the HCSB employs. The point of a good translation is not to revel in its fancy-dancy language. I'm more of a Tyndale and Lutheran guy in that regard.

    Really? Someone like say ... you?

    The ESV doesn't always use the word "flesh" when sarx is in the original. Other more functionally-equivalent expressions are used.
     
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Acts

    Chapter 1

    v. 14
    E : with one accord
    M : with one mind

    Chapter 2

    v. 3
    E : And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them.
    M : There appeared to them tongues like flames that were distributed and that settled on each one of them.

    v. 14
    E : lifted up his voice
    M : raising his voice

    v. 14
    E : let this be known to you, and give ear to my words
    M : you should all understand this, so take note of what I say

    Chapter 3

    v. 3
    E : he asked to receive alms
    M : he asked for charity

    v. 11
    E : all the people ran together to them in the portico called Solomon's, astounded
    M : all the people ran crowding toward them at the place called Solomon's Portico.

    v. 17
    E : as did also your rulers
    M : just as your rulers did

    v. 26
    E : by turning every one of you from your wickedness
    M : as each of you turns from his evil ways
     
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 4

    v. 1
    E : came upon them
    M : approached them

    v. 4
    E : the number of the men
    M : their number

    v. 7
    E : set them in the midst
    M : placing them in the center

    v. 13
    E : perceived
    M : understood

    v. 27
    E : for truly
    m : actually

    Chapter 5

    v. 10
    E : breathed her last
    M : died

    v. 20
    E : all the words of this Life
    M : all about this new life

    v. 38
    E : this plan or this undertaking is of man
    M : this plan or movement be merely human
     
  4. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 6

    v. 1
    E : the Hellenists
    M : Greek-speaking Jews

    v. 3
    E : of good repute
    M : of good reputation

    v. 12
    E : they came upon him and seized him
    M : they attacked and grabbed him

    Chapter 7

    v. 3
    E : your kindred
    M : your relations

    v. 23
    E : it came into his heart
    M : he resolved

    v. 25
    E : salvation by his hand
    M : deliverance through him

    v. 26
    E : Why do you wrong each other?
    M : why are you mistreating each other?

    v. 27
    E : thrust him aside
    M : pushed him away

    v. 31
    E : he drew near
    M : he approached

    v. 40
    E : Make for us gods
    m : Make us gods

    Chapter 8

    v. 3
    E : committed them to prison
    M : he put them in prison

    v. 10
    E : This man is the power of God that is called Great.
    M : He is what is called the Great Power of God.

    v. 22
    E : the intent of your heart may be forgiven you
    m : to forgive you for what you had in mind

    Chaper 10

    v. 3
    E : About the ninth hour
    M : about three in the afternoon

    v. 9
    E : about the sixth hour
    M : about noontime

    v. 15
    E : do not call common
    m : must not consider unclean

    v. 26
    E : I too am a man.
    M : I am a human being too.
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 11

    v. 14
    E : he will declare to you a message
    M : he will give you the message

    Chapter 13

    v. 25
    E : the sandals of whose feet I am not worthy to untie
    M : whose sandal-strings I am not fit to untie

    v. 28
    E : though they found in him no guilt worthy of death
    M : although finding no crime that deserved death

    v. 29
    E : they took him down from the tree
    M : they took Him down from the cross
     
  6. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    One of the main problems with the ESV is it retained too much language from the RSV, which tipped too much of its hat towards the KJV and older translations/language choices. While the RSV was in many respects a commendable translation, and needed a suitable revision, the ESV didn't improve enough. I don't think it should be thrown under the bus, but it is not what it could be - it could be far better in terms of expressing an essentially literal translation without being so darn cumbersome or head-scratching in phraseology.
     
  7. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I agree Rippon.
    THis is totally a matter of opinion of course but the KJV is simply more difficult to read. Of course it was not at all difficult for those in the day it was written.
    THE KJV after all paved the way for modern english translations.

    All of the good modern version honor the tradition of the KJV and of it's translators.

    I think I still like the NASB the best but the ESV is a close second and I am starting to like the NKJ more.
     
  8. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I agree Rippon.
    THis is totally a matter of opinion of course but the KJV is simply more difficult to read. Of course it was not at all difficult for those in the day it was written.
    THE KJV after all paved the way for modern english translations.

    All of the good modern version honor the tradition of the KJV and of it's translators.

    I think I still like the NASB the best but the ESV is a close second and I am starting to like the NKJ more.
     
  9. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 14

    v. 15
    E : We are also men, of like nature with you
    M : We are human with like emotions as yourselves.

    v. 28
    E : and they remained no little time with the disciples.
    M : And they spent a long time with the disciples.

    Chapter 15

    v. 2
    E : Paul and Barnbas had no small dissension
    M : there was a great deal of dissension between Paul and Barnabas

    v. 25
    E : it has seemed good to us, having come to one accord
    M : we have unanimously thought it well

    Chapter 16

    v. 10
    E : we sought to go on into Macedonia
    M : we made attempts to enter Macedonia

    v. 16
    E : brought her owners much gain
    M : brought in much money for her owners

    v. 34
    E : he rejoiced along with his entire household that he had believed in God
    M : was extremely happy with all his loved ones because they had believed in God.
    [ The ESV messes that one up big time. Here's the TNIV : "he was filled with joy because he had come to believe in God -- he and his whole household."]
     
  10. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Dale, I was not speaking of the KJV in my post #21 -- but the ESV.

    It was less difficult than it is today. But the English it uses was already archaic by 1611. I have said many times that Tyndale's New Testament written decades before the KJV sounds more contemporary to us these days. It was not as ornate and fancy-dancy.

    In a sense. but newer versions were bound to come whether it was the KJV Geneva or Bishop's Bible that came before.

    Be careful of traditionalism Dale.


    ___________________________________________________________

    I straightened-out your English here and there. Could you tell?
     
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 17

    v. 4
    E : not a few of the leading women
    M : a number of prominent women

    v. 24
    E : made by man
    M : built by human hands

    v. 29
    E : by the art and imagination of man
    M : or anything humanly manufactured or invented

    v. 33
    E : went out from their midst
    M : went out from among them

    Chapter 19

    v. 16
    E : mastered all of them and overpowered them
    M : overpowered all of them
    [ The ESV is being redundant here.]

    v. 23
    E : there arose no little disturbance
    M : considerable disturbance occurred

    v. 25
    E : from this business we have our wealth
    M : we are deriving a good living from this trade

    v. 27
    E : she may even be deposed from her magnificance
    M : her magnificent glory will come to an end
     
  12. Dale-c

    Dale-c Active Member

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    I am very careful of traditionalism. In this case I am referring to the fact that the original AV translators were in favor of continued study and of updating the text of the english Bible needed to be most consistent with the original texts.

    I do distinguish from tradition and traditionalism.

    Everyone has tradition, some also are enslaved by traditionalism.
     
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Chapter 20

    v. 12
    E : were not a little comforted
    M : were greatly encouraged

    v. 20
    E : how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable
    M : how I never failed to tell you what was for your benefit

    v. 27
    E : for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God.
    M : for I have not fallen short at all of preaching to you the whole purpose of God.

    v. 30
    E : will arise men
    M : persons will arise

    Chapter 21

    v. 4
    E : And having sought out the disciples
    M : We looked up the disciples

    v. 5
    E : we departed
    M : we left

    v. 22
    E : What then is to be done?
    M : Now, how about it?

    v. 23
    E : Do therefore what we tell you.
    M : So then, do as we tell you.

    v. 31
    E : And as they were seeking to kill him
    M : They were trying to kill him

    Chapter 22

    v. 6
    E : drew near
    M : nearing

    v. 18
    E : Make haste
    M : Hurry

    Chapter 23

    v. 35
    E : Herod's praetorium
    M : Herold's palace

    Chapter 24

    v. 2
    E : by your foresight
    M : through your provision

    Chapter 25

    v. 2
    E : principal men of the Jews
    M : prominent Jews

    Chapter 26

    v. 20
    E : performing deeds in keeping with their repentance
    M : do works consistent with repentance

    v. 31
    E : And when they had withdrawn
    M : and, stepping to one side

    Chapter 27

    v. 14
    E : a tempestuous wind
    M : a hurricane

    v. 18
    E : jettison the carago
    M : threw the cargo overboard

    v. 22
    E : take heart
    M : cheer up

    Chapter 28

    v. 18
    E : they wished to set me at liberty
    M : they wanted to set me free

    v. 19
    E : I was compelled
    M : I was forced

    v. 28
    E : let it be known to you
    M : Let it be clearly understood
     
    #33 Rippon, Oct 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2009
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Most modern translations acknowledge their indebtedness to the pioneering work of William Tyndale.The KJV translators were really revisers of Mr. Tyndale's efforts. They relied, for the most part, on his New Testament.

    The NIV family of translations are not consciously in the Tyndale line as such. Neither is the HCSB, NLTse and other fine translations. But these and many other translation teams are very grateful to William Tyndale. They adhere to WT's principle that the language of the plow boy should be used in Bible translations --not to cater to the literati.
     
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    It's Interesting

    The MLB uses more so-called gender-neutral, or inclusive language than the ESV and HCSB. There are a total of twelve verses in my posts from both Luke and Acts which use gender-neutral language. But you needn't condemn this conservative translation of capitulating to a feminist plot! ( as many have charged the TNIV).

    In the book of Luke there were five passages I listed which the MLB used GN language. The references are : 9:25,44; 10:6; 14:24 (The Norlie did here as well.)and 16:15. The HCSB had a footnote which used GN at 10:6. at 16:15 it used GN in the text.

    In the book of Acts the references which employ inclusive language are: 4:4; 5:38; 10:26; 14:15; 17:24,29 and 20:30. The HCSB used GN at 17:24 and 17:29. (As did the Norlie).
     
  16. Thermodynamics

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    I don't see this as so much of a "dig" or attack on the KJV as it is an unintended (perhaps) recognition that the KJV is still the standard against which all other English versions of the Bible are measured.
     
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