Concerning John 5:24

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by adisciplinedlearner, Jul 23, 2010.

  1. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
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    John 5
    [24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


    According to Jesus, the one who keeps on hearing and keeps on believing has everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from spiritual death unto spiritual life.

    The one who does not keep on hearing and keep on believing forfeits eternal life, shall come into condemnation, and will pass from spiritual life unto spiritual death. Only the one who endures to the end shall be finally saved.
     
  2. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    The term "passed" is Indicative in mode and perfect in tense and refers to the precise point IN TIME when a spiritual dead person became a spiritually alive person. You cannot deny this is the force of the perfect tense as indicative of TIME and ACTION simply because regeneration is not an incompleted progressive action. Thus you cannot wiggle out of the perfect tense.

    Second, the Perfect tense verb proves that "eternal life" is not due to or dependent upon a future judgment because it is derived from a past tense completed action "passed from death unto life" and that is why it is a PRESENT possession "hath everlasting life." These two facts alone destroy your interpretation.

    Finally, the participles modify the main verb and the indicative action of the main verb determines the cause of life just as the consequential language demands "passed FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE." Regeneration is the cause and it is a completed action in past time and therefore is in present possession.

    Many would argue that the present tense participles are preceded in action by the past tense completed action of the main verb just as a past tense action precedes a present tense action and we have proven that regeneration is a past tense completed action rather than a progressive incompleted action. The imperfect and present tense convey either a past tense incompleted action or a present tense completed action but Jesus uses the Perfect indicative not an imperfect or present.

    However, one may argue grammatically that the present tense participles convey SIMELTANEOUS action with the action of the main verb. Thus when regeneration occurred so did hearing and believing and as the completed action stands complete up to the present time so does hearing and believing.

    However, there is no conditional clauses nor use of the subjunctive mode and therefore, there is no grounds to argue that regeneration or the completed action of having passed from death to life" is conditioned in the present upon continuing to hear and believe in Christ.

    Indeed, the participle actions are presented as evidence of having been passed from death to life and thus the reason for PRESENT possession of eternal life rather than eternal life being contingent upon a future judgement. Indeed, the natural reading of the text is that no future judgement shall come to make that determination becuase it has been determined in a completed action in the past and the present possession of eternal life is not only proof of it but the fact that the person is hearing and believing is proof of regeneration.
     
    #2 Dr. Walter, Jul 23, 2010
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  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
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    Why did not you simply state the truth in a manner a wayfaring man though a fool could understand?? You could have just stated the truth and nothing but the truth and told ADL simply that his conclusions do not fit your presupposition of OSAS so therefore his conclusion cannot be correct.:thumbs:
     
  4. Dr. Walter

    Dr. Walter
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    I have learned a long time ago that if you do not deal with this kind of person thoroughly the first time, it just extends to a long series of posts. He understands what I have said. Just look at the last paragraph and that is all you need to understand my position.
     
    #4 Dr. Walter, Jul 23, 2010
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  5. Bro K

    Bro K
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    I don't believe that the verse implies that one must "keep on" in relations to the context.
     
  6. adisciplinedlearner

    adisciplinedlearner
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    John 5:24
    He that believes...
    shall not
    come into condemnation

    John 3:36
    he that believes not...
    shall not
    see life

    Grammatically, if the first means that the condition of the believer can not be changed, then the second means that the condition of the unbeliever likewise can not be changed. In fact, neither passage is even speaking to that issue. The unbeliever can leave his unbelief, become a believer, and see life-thus escaping from the promise made to the unbeliever who continues in his unbelief. Likewise, the believer can leave his belief, become an unbeliever, and come into condemnation-thus escaping from the promise made to believers who continue in faith. Each promise applies with equal force to those who continue in the respective state described.

    ~ Robert Picirilli
     
  7. RAdam

    RAdam
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    The verbs are present tense.

    Do you presently believe in Jesus Christ? If the answer is yes, then the Lord Himself said you have everlasting life, you shall not come into condemnation, and that you are in the state where you have passed from death into life. That is what that verse says. It, by itself, says nothing of if one later does not believe, although I would contend other verses that correspond prove eternal security. That verse is not in the least bit conditional. It is a simple declarative statement. The one who presently believes presently possesses everlasting life, is not under condemnation, and is in the state of spiritual life rather than spiritual death. It doesn't say anything about past or future belief or unbelief, only present. You can't prove your idea based on that text.

    Now I would argue that the life you passed into is called everlasting life. If it is everlasting, how can it end and you pass back into death? If it was conditioned upon further belief, it would have been simply called life. It wasn't though, it was called everlasting life.
     
  8. Dr. Walter

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    The latter text is a contrast ("but") between two opposing conditions and conclusions but the former text is a declaration of conclusions based upon a common completed action.


    The direct object of believing in John 5:24 is not "shall not come into judgement" as Picirilla demands but rather is "hath everlasting life." The phrase "shall not come into judgement" directly modifies "but is passed from death unto life" but Picirilli arranges the text to suit his heresy.
     
  9. Jedi Knight

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    I don't think for a moment the shepherd shared this with you.
     

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