Conform To The World

So then according to your interpretation of 2 John you believe that all unbelievers are deceivers and antichrists, right?

So then to be consistent, if you had a church in your home you would never let a lost person come in. But there is a clear case in 1 Cor. 14:23 of believers being welcomed into the church--which was in a home in those days.

Again, James 2 talks about a rich and poor man coming into the assembly--no doubt lost people. And the passage talks about welcoming them.

To be consistent, you would never let a lost plumber or electrician in your home. And if you did allow them in, you would never offer them a cup of cold water in the name of Jesus. Am I right, or am I taking what you believe too far? If you do not believe in going as far as what I just wrote, you are being inconsistent in your interpretation of this passage.

What about having Bible classes in your home with lost people? Is that all right? If it is all right, then by your logic you would have to either never give them tea while they were in your home or maybe get up and leave the table while they drank that cup of water you gave them in Jesus' name.

I'm just trying to show you respectfully that your position is not consistent with the passage. I challenge you to read the usage of the term "antichrist" in John's other writings and honestly compare it with the 2 John passage. I believe you are taking the passage more strictly than John meant it.

 

I just opened a new thread for a specific discussion of this topic so this thread can stay on the conforming issue.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=902904#post902904

 

LeBuick, let me give you a practical viewpoint. I don't much know how it is in the States nowadays, but here in Japan many people take me for a JW when I'm out on evangelism, since they have spread their doctrine around so much. For my part, when they come to my door I want to give no excuse for my Buddhist neighbors to think I approve of their doctrine by inviting the JWs in.

Shortly after I started my first church, down in Yokohama, we led a young housewife to the Lord. I took her through my followup lessons, she was growing in grace, everything was great! Then the JWs got to her. At first, they told her that they were Christians just like us, and wanted to have a Bible study with her. I nixed that, but they persisted and stole her away by their deceptions.

To me the JWs are deceivers and antichrists when they come around doing their "evangelism," and I would never want to give anyone the impression I approved of their doctrine. However, I have often witnessed to them at the door. Hmm, funny thing, they don't come around nowadays since I've started giving them a tract by a former JW turned IFB! :laugh:

 

I do agree the times have changed, but God has not ! Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever. Many churches are growing in numbers by leaps and bounds through compromising to the world and it's cultures..... It's the sinner that needs to change, that includes the ideas, likes, dislikes, even the un-godly worldly music they're listening to. So many are truly being deceived--- WWJD ??
Do you really think Jesus would listen to music that was created out of drug-crazed minds ( heavy metal, hard rock) or do you think He would actualy endorse this violent,sexually perverted mega ego trip type stuff ? (Rap,Hip hopp) The only thing different is the artist may throw in the name Jesus or something spiritual once in a while. When we love God, everything is not about us any more.... we should change, our likes, and dislikes. It's all about Him !! Jesus deserves better than music created while lives were in sin, and just the lyrics have been changed. This whole issue is NOT about culture, it"s about stubborn, unrepentant flesh.

 

Well, there you go people...
We that sing CCM are of the devil...

I just love it when one brother in Christ shows another Christ's love by telling them that their service for God is of the devil...

That is being worldly.

 

Way to go, David. 1 post into your stay here on the BB, and you've already got people rolling their eyes at you.

 

I am sure every composer of classical music, traditional "church" music and of course southern gospel all live pristine, holy lives

Bro Tony

 

Do you even realize that when Jesus spoke with the Sadducees he spoke differently than he did with the Pharisees. With the Sadducees he only use the Torah. Whereas with the Pharisees he use the entire OT. Did Jesus change from group to another?

So are you saying then that the early church was greatly decieved because it grew by leaps and bounds. Jesus was accused of many things you accuse the church today of.

Remember you cannot put new wine into old wineskins. I have personally seen some of those old guard churches cease doing evangelism and die. Yet they pray for the lost an dnever share their faith. Yet they wonder why God doesn't bless. He cannot bless laziness. Just a few years ago I spoke to a chruch and they asked to meet with me afterward. I gave them a plan where they would grow if they would only work. They wanted a new pastor but would not work. When they told me that, I told them might as well just close the doros and go home.

 

Seems like about one every other week has been coming forward on the national news.

 

What are cooties? Are they what we call "nits" (headlice)?

Every blessing,

 

Does conforming to the culture where you live and minister necessarily mean that you are conforming to the world?

Sometime I think there is a jingoistic attitude in some American churches - the way we do it here is the only way, this is God's way and anything else is conforming to the world.

What saith the scriptures must be our guide when decided what constitutes conformity, not traditions and rituals.

 

Conformed To The World

While it is true that Jesus fed those whom God called to Him before He preached to them, He probably would not approve of His followers participating in cannibalism to witness to headhunters in Borneo.

From the mouths of babes: "Daddy, how do we tell which ones are the Christians--they all act alike on Monday?" This is the real witness--worldwide.

Preach the gospel to every creature--even if you need an interpreter.

Mass marketing religion is probably at an all time high.

We got trouble--right here--in River City.

Now what?
Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

I fully agree with what you imply by your questions, Jeseph. It has got to the stage where Christians who don't tell all and sundry, "God loves you", or wear one of those yellow stickers with the words, "Smile, God loves you!" are considered harsh and unloving. Yet (as far as I am aware) we don't read of Jesus or His followers preaching in this way.

Yes, there are many instances of such words being used to believers, such as Jesus saying to His disciples in John 16.27:

"for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came forth from God."

Also there are many verses in the epistles of the same nature. Here are just a few examples:

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5.8

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, Ephesians 2.4

Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 1 John 3.1

All such words are addressed to believers. Were such words ever used in scripture in the preaching of the gospel to unbelievers? I tried to find just one example, but could not. In the New Testament, we do read of unbelievers being told that they are sinners, that they must repent and believe the gospel, that they must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved, that there is no other way of salvation, and so on.

Those sinners who by God's grace have repented and believed are told that God loves them.

Yours by His grace alone,

 

Cooties is a fictional disease and a slang word used primarily by North American children to refer to a highly along gender lines, as in "Mary Jane O'Connor, stay away from those boys or you might get cooties!" The Commonwealth/British English equivalent is "the lurgy".

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooties

 

Thanks for that, Terry.

 

I find your example very fitting. Peter thought he had it all figured out. So do alot of people. Especially the ones that are attributing the works of God to Satan just because the works makes them feel uncomfortable in their culture.

As for you question.... I would answer "no" it would not automatically make the the song please God.

Now, does it displease God to add Drums and modern music to a Gospel song?...
Please show scripture. IN CONTEXT. If you have no scripture then you are attributing the works of God to Satan... Jesus called this blasphemy.

Just because your culture, and way of thinking says it is wrong, does not make it wrong for others. Right and wrong have to be based on the Bible, The Bible has to be the absolute authority, or you are guilty of saying there is no absolute truth... a post modern idea.

Now, please show us from scripture that CCM is wrong.
Oh, and btw being conformed to this world can work both ways...
People that are set in their ways, are conformed already.

 

True Roger, and lest we American Christians forget that biblical Christianity does not equate to Western Christianity. We have westernized the Scripture and made our way THE WAY. Much of what is consider normal in the practice of the faith in many western fundamental churches would be completely foreign to biblical churches in the east and middle-east.

Bro Tony

 

This is why a cross cultural mission trip should be required for all serious Christians.
It opens our eyes to the fact that Westernized Christianity is not the only way.

Why in some churches around the world they dance to worship God.... AGHAST!!!!

I just wanted to edit this to add...

This is one of the blessings of the internet.
For instance, take someone that has never left the county they were born in, or at least has never lived more than 50 miles from where they grew up. They have always attended the same type church. Then they come on to BB and realize that there are all different ways to worship God... It can be a culture shock.
They will usually do one of two things,
1) They will condemn anyone who worships differently than them...after all, that is not how church is done down here, so it must be wrong. They will take Bible Scriptures that were originally written to the mid-eastern churches and apply them to the churches in the USA. Of course the basics apply, but there are some nuances that were meant for them.
Then they quote these scriptures out of context to make themselves feel better. The fact that other Christians are serving and worshipping God differently than themselves scares them. So much that they go into denial, and refuse to accept their brothers and sisters in Christ.
or
2) They will thank God for diversity.

One time, as moderator of our local association, I was called upon to answer questions about mission monies.
The church wanted me to explain how their mission money was being used by our convention, and denomination.
One person stood up, and said....
"ya know, I don't feel right givin' money to them thar missionaries that don't use the KJV in Africa"

I asked, "You mean you want them to read from the KJV while on the mission field?"
He said, "Why, yes!!! That is the only true word of God!"

I kindly asked, "And what language is it written in?"
He said, "English"

I asked, "And what language do the people in Africa speak?"
He said, "Well, I don't know"

Then I asked him what good a KJV would do for people that can't speak or read English.
You could have seen the proverbial light bulb appear over all their heads..
They had never even considered the language barrier...why?
They were from a backwoods Baptist church, where most had not had an education, and had been raised in that area.
They had no idea of cross cultural mission work.

From my perspective, the ones that claim we are conforming to the world, really don't want to believe that God can and does, and enjoys working with others that worship different from them.
Whether it be in Africa, Ireland, Japan,
Hispanics, Hip-hop culture, or even the culture of the southern USA, God works through all that are Christians.

Go figure, we still haven't got God figured out yet.