Conversion-Immersion

So Ann, once you baptized the child as a dedication and the child came to faith later, was the child baptized again? If they did the baptism merely as a dedication and the child later came to faith was the child baptized again? If not, then would that be considered administering baptism to unbelievers?

 

The parenthetical (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, etc,) is simply meant to distinguish between the spiritual cleansing of baptism and the physical cleansing of taking a bath. The resurrection of Christ is the sine qua non of baptism's efficacy.

 

It is a figure. You seem to recognize that. "The spiritual cleansing of the baptism," is done by "spiritual baptism," that is when we are baptized into Christ. Thus the parenthetical (not the putting away of the flesh)

What had happened? Eight souls were saved. How? They were in the Ark, that is in Christ, which the Ark represented. The baptism in the picture was destruction. All around them were waters of destruction wherein all flesh was destroyed: carcasses lying everywhere. Waters from below and from above were meant for the sole purpose of destroying. They were baptized in waters of destruction. That was physical--physical water. When them came out of that water which held nothing but an old life and death and destruction all around them they came out to a new life.

But they were in Christ. It was the ark that kept them safe. They were in the Ark. That is what kept them safe. If I am not making myself perfectly clear, read this quote:

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/salvatio/bapsav08.htm

 

Ok, Ann, it would have benn better for me to say 'there are many bigoted Free Presbyterian's' as has been well documented by the press and Christianity Today. However, I had not intention of saying ALL Free Presbyterians are bigots. There are Southern Baptist bigots as well, but certainly not all Southern Baptists are bigots. They have even apologized for their racists and elitist positions during the civil war era.

 

You can retreat now Lori.
The civil war has ended. There is no one here that is a member of the KKK.
Slavery has been abolished. You don't need to dig your claws in any further into the past.
The Free Presbyterians are evangelical and fundamental.
The Bible Presbyterians are evangelical and fundamental.
The Baptists that I am associated with are evangelical and fundamental.

The RCC is an apostate organization that does not know the meaning of the new birth, and whose message sends people to hell everyday.
That is the whole point of this thread isn't it? "Conversion-Immersion" or Baptismal regeneration. It is heresy. Water does not save. That is a superstition that is common among Catholics and Hindus.

 

That is slander. I became a Christians two years before I was baptized. Don't redefine terms according to your theology.

 

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Then the Philippian Jailor believed and was saved.
Sometime after that, Paul was taken to his house, the rest of his house believed, and then they had a baptismal service. They all believed first.

Saul was saved the moment he called Jesus Lord. No Jew would ever say: "Lord, what would thou have me to do," and still be unsaved. The very thought of an unsaved Jew submitting to Christ as master and Lord of his life is unthinkable. It was some time later that he met Ananias and then was baptized. On the basis that his sins had already been remitted he was baptized.

 

Whoa!! You have not yet been able to prove your position!!

Your candidates for baptism are unrepentant and unbelievers so why would they suddenly have a change of mind and heart when they step into the waters of baptism and decide to confess repentance from sins and faith in Christ in water and not before?

You can't have your cake and eat it to! Ephesians 4:18 and Romans 7:8 describes the unregenerate state and it denies that while in that condition they are at ENMITY with God. So how do you get someone who is at ENMITY with God to be baptized if that ENMITY is not removed until baptism?

The unregenerate state is a state of rebellion against the authority of God (Rom. 8:7) so how do you get someone who is in rebellion against the authority of God to enter into baptism?

The unregenerate state is a state of incompetency to understand spiritual things and IGNORANCE so how do you get someone blind and ignorant of the spiritual state to enter into the waters of baptism?

DHK's testimony fits scripture as repentance and faith occur BEFORE baptism but your position CANNOT POSSIBLY harmonize with Scripture and YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO HARMONIZE IT! So the burden of proof is on you not DHK!

Show anywhere in the book of Acts where unrepentant and unbelievers were baptized?

 

The fact is that repentance and faith ALWAYS Precede baptism rather than are concurrent with baptism as you teach: For example John demands "fruit" or proof of repentance BEFORE he would baptize these. If as you say repentance is concurrent with baptism then John is contradicting the very nature of baptism.[/COLOR]

Mt. 3:6 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:


For example, Philip demanded PRIOR faith in Christ BEFORE he would baptize the Eunuch:

Acts 8:36 See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

This is the Biblical order not your CONCURRENT repentance/faith/baptism that begins with stepping into the water and concludes by stepping out of the water.

Paul was a repentant believer DAYS BEFORE he was baptized proving neither his repentance and faith proclaimed in "Lord what will thou have me to do" PRECEDED baptism rather than was concurrent in baptism.

What you teach cannot be found in the book of Acts - Baptism inclusive of repentance and faith

1. Biblical order - repentance/faith preceding baptism
2. You order - baptism (repentance faith)baptism

Your candidates for baptism are unregenerate, unrepentant unbelievers by your own confession. You are the one who has departed/apostatized from the New Testament practice in the book of Acts not DHK.

 

Well so far adisciplinedlearner:
You have called me unregenerate,
My sins were not forgiven,

And you have demonstrated that you have no Biblical understanding of Acts 2:38 or of Paul's own testimony of his salvation.
That is quite a list.

Understand this.
If I was unregenerate when I called upon the name of the Lord, that is when I trusted Christ as my Savior, (and as you say I was during those first two years), then I am not saved today. For I have not called on the name of the Lord for salvation since then. According to you I still am an unregenerated wretch on my way to hell with no forgiveness of sins, and no hope for heaven.

Acts 2:38 demands a proper understanding of the Greek preposition "eis", which apparently you don't have. The same word is used in Mat.3:11, where John says "I baptize you unto (for in ASV) repentance." Did he baptize them because they had repented, or in order that they would gain repentance?
The same is true in Acts 2:38. He baptized on the basis or because their sins had been forgiven, not in order that their sins might be forgiven. A little study goes a long way.

Paul called upon the name of the Lord.
Paul himself stated in Romans 10:13: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
I believe Paul, not you.

 

Your theology demands that you believe I am not a Christian. I never called upon the name of the Lord when I was baptized. If I was not saved two years prior, not saved at the time of baptism, did not call upon the name of the Lord during Baptism, then I am not saved now. For I have not called upon the name of the Lord (that is trusted in him for my salvation) since two years before my baptism, at which time you declared me unsaved. Thus I am still unsaved today. This is your theology. Think through your own logic. There is no way, according to your logic that I could be a saved person. You have concluded that I am unsaved.