Corporate&Individual Election

This is why an inductive methodology is so critical.

“For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God” (I John 5:5-5)?

 

I guess I am in alignment with some of today's greatest and most noted fundamentalist Christians in the world. :1_grouphug:

I have no problem with that.

Thank you for pointing that out.
To God be the glory!:godisgood:

 

Group

People like to put people in some kind of group, through the dirversity of the Baptist Church I do not have to be put in a group, but believe in every word that comes from the mouth of God..

I do not like to be in a box, but I want to know the whole truth that only every word that comes from the mouth of God can provide. God is bigger than any box that man can make, when you put yourself in a box then you limit all what God has to teach us.

The Holy Bible is the complete work of God in one book. We are not to add or take away, but believe even if we do not understand, it is God's job through Jesus to open our eyes.

 

never by myself

I am a part of the body of Christ, we cannot say to the foot we don't need you. You know one of my favorite verses that God always brings me back to.

Hebrews 3
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.

 

Umm --- that was spoken of OVERCOMERS, not of "the elect."

Are you now appropriating "wholesale" any blessings you find regarding anyone in the Bible only to Calvinists?

skypair

 

Better one man and the Holy Spirit with the Bible than 100 "teachers" with a Bible but without the Holy Spirit.

skypair

 

Blot out names

We all know God does not have to blot out any name.

God didn't know who will remain in Christ He wouldn't be God. It still doesn't stop God from cutting those out for unbelief, for He is the Gardener.

 

Live by every word?

Rev 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Some names are being blotted out thought?

 

Oh, but this has everything to do with election. I'll get back to this later.

 

over cometh

The end result will never be blotted out, God knows who they will be, the ones who will over cometh, those who endure to the end. We want to believe in one scripture that agrees with us and use it to blot out another. Both scripture are the truth or all of it is a lie, you cannot pick a gray area.

I cannot disagree with the scripture of being blotted out nor can I disagree with these.

Matthew 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Romans 11:
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

John 15:5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Ezekiel 3:
18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for [Or in] his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself.
20 "Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. 21 But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself."

James 5:
16...The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

17Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. 19My brothers, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring him back, 20remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of his way will save him from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

James 3:1
Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

We stand firm in Christ because of Him, but as the scripture say's if we disown Him, He will disown us. I'm not talking about a peter experience of denial, but total disowning Him.

John 1:
11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Matthew 10:33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

2 Timothy 2:8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God's word is not chained. 10Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

11Here is a trustworthy saying:
If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself.

When we are faithless, God is Faithful to do what His word say's He will do.

Hebrews 3
Warning Against Unbelief
7So, as the Holy Spirit says:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the desert,
9where your fathers tested and tried me
and for forty years saw what I did.
10That is why I was angry with that generation,
and I said, 'Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.'
11So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.' "

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[Or disbelieved]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Jude 1:
5Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord[Some early manuscripts Jesus] delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.

 

This quote I'm going to save.

Not that it matters at this point, but intervention stop or prevent another person from doing something. Calling in its root English form is to beckon. It is also used in English when you speak of a vocation or profession or duty. This idea is also seen in the Bible as it relates to the calling into service. However, calling at times means the same as election. One must read the word in its context.

So your 1st point is no point.

2nd....

You mean to tell me that God blinds all me and speaks to them as he did Paul? Grained Romans says the law is seen on the persons heart when they follow the law when they do not have the law. But other then nature which is given to all mankind, God does not intervene to all people and stop them as he did Paul, as he did Balak the Moabite, as He did Abimelech.

So your 2nd point is also no point.

aaaaw yeah. ok

no point

He is not glorified in your views, for you always remove his power.

Face it God can and does intervene to whom he wills, and others he does not.

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

I say yes.

SP...what do you say? Can God make a vessel of clay (man) unto dishonour?

 

Once again you master the dictionary but fail in your application. "Make your calling and election sure" means to prove that you were called to Christ and to His service. Likewise in Rom 8:30 -- "whom He did predestinate, He did call" -- means that in the course of time, those whom God foreknew and predestinated, He "beckoned," if you will (Or I would suppose that you call it "effecacious calling"). My point is that ALL are "called" by what you call "general grace" or "general calling."

Yeah, right. Like "foreknow" and "predestinate." Calvies cannot distinguish a difference "at times" is more like it. :laugh:

I know for you that this is going to be "bad tasting medicine" but here goes --- OPEN WIDE. God intervenes dispensationally in EVERY person's life.

Now I know you don't understand dispensations so I will explain -- we all have consciences. We all have parents. We all have authorities in our lives. We all eventually see that there are "laws" at work amongst men. We all know what innocence is and we all experience mercy as well. All of these are used by God, if we live long enough, to intervene in our selfish lives and make us aware of His authority and will.

You have just confirmed one of my examples. Thank you.

And you are one of the privileged few so that would be proof that He doesn't intervene in others lives? Curious deduction to say the least.

Go all the way back to Isa 29:10-19 where ISRAEL is 'esteemed as the potter's clay.' Then Isa 41:25 where God brings the Assyrians on ISRAEL. Isa 64:8 -- "Thou [God] art the potter and we [ISRAEL] are the clay." On to Jeremiah 18 -- again ISRAEL is the clay. And now Rom 9 -- God is remarkably consistent, isn't He? He's talking about ISRAEL throughout!

Does God tell us to turn some men "over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus [Bema]?" 1Cor 5:5 James: "Your glorying [in Calvin's wisdom] is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?"

skypair