Cotrasting Foreknowledge with Foreseeing!

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Sep 8, 2014.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Which one best supports the biblical concept of how God interacts with sinners in salvation?
     
  2. convicted1

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    Brother KYR said it best; "I foreknew what veggies would grow in my garden because I planted them." Paraphrasing what he said...


    Matthew 15:13 (YLT)
    And he answering said, `Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant shall be rooted up;
     
  3. JonC

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    Foreknowledge.
     
  4. prophet

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    The "I Am" sees everything in present tense.

    He includes Time references like: "foreknow", for our benefit.
    But truth is, He is there, right now, the beginning and the ending at the same "time".
    He is the Eternal One.
    He sees.
    He knows.
    He has mercy, and extends the same invitation to the majority that rejects Him, as He does to the Minority that accept Him.

    Isa 57:15
    15 For thus saith the high and lofty One
    that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy;
    I dwell in the high and holy place,
    with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit,
    to revive the spirit of the humble,
    and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

    Heb 11:6
    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    He is.
     
  5. convicted1

    convicted1
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    Prophet,

    You contradicted yourself in your post. You stated this:

    'He has mercy, and extends the same invitation to the majority that rejects Him, as He does to the Minority that accept Him.'

    And then posted Isaiah 57:15....


    'dwell in the high and holy place,
    with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit,

    to revive the spirit of the humble,
    and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.'

    How is this offer 'extended to the many that reject Him', yet this verse says He dwells with those that have a contrite and humble spirit?
     
  6. steaver

    steaver
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    You will need to define each and show the differences.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    I am puzzled as to why one thinks they need to pit one against the other. All of this emphasizing things like this one over the other is where all these doctrinal errors coem from. Its just not necessary.
     
  8. steaver

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    Tis why I asked them to define the differences. They say God cannot foresee anything, but God does have foreknowledge. They need to explain themselves.
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    I can answer that. You are conflating the offer of salvation with those who are saved. Not the same thing. God dwells with the saints. That is not the same thing as the offer of salvation to someone who have not yet repented.
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    God either foreknows us before we are saved, in the sense that He has predetermined that we will be coming to jesus to get saved, as that was His soveregn will it will happen..

    OR

    Else God foresees that a sinner will be accepting jesus , so He supplied the means, but the sinner actually made the final choice..

    Foreknowledge implies that since God knows that he is the one granting salvation to us, we indeed get saved ,,,

    Foreseeing would be that he provided the means to get saved, but awaiting to see if we will make that decision to received jesus...

    Foreseeing also can be use in a sense to justifiy Open theism, as God might honor free will enough to allow for Him to be "blinded" to our destiny until he sees us accepting jesus..
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    This is called a false dischotomy.We can know this as both are discussed in scripture.
     
  12. steaver

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    Foreknowledge does not force such an implication. Foreknowledge simply means God knows already before it happens in the future.

    Foreseeing does not force a "wait and see" implication neither. Foreseeing simply means God sees in His mind those who will receive Jesus Christ because God foreknows.

    Thus, God does both, He foresees and He foreknows. Thus, it is very probable that God made His election decisions based on what He has already foreknown and foreseen would come to pass.
     
  13. Tom Butler

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    Let me throw a question in here.

    If God foresees that one possesses saving faith prior to his election, and independent of election, why is there a need to elect him in the first place?

    Augustine, in his book of Retractions, noted that he erred in having once thought that election is based on foreseen faith.
    Thomas Paul Simmons in A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine argues:
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    Those who hold to free will of man as the ultimate basis for their salvation must have God foreseeing our faith, as foreknowledge implies that He knows due to Him causing that to happen!
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    I do not know a single soul who believes that. These dishonest characterizations of others views just needs to stop. It is bearing a false witness and is ungodly.
     
  16. Tom Butler

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    Romans 8:28-30 tells us that it is not WHAT God foreknew, but WHOM. Paul goes on to point out that it is those WHOM he foreknew, he predestinated, etc.

    John 10:38 says Jesus KNOWS His sheep. He had just said in v.27 "you don't believe because you're not my sheep." Then, "MY sheep hear my voice...

    Note, that sheep are not sheep because they hear his voice. They hear Him because they are His sheep.

    Earlier, Jesus noted that he had other sheep that were not of this fold (Jews). (v.16). Jesus said those sheep were not yet saved, (in the fold) but would be.

    So, to me, foreknow suggests a relationship God had with the objects of His grace before they were born; before they were saved; from eternity, if you will

    In other words, he foreknew them from eternity, and brought them to himself in time.
     
    #16 Tom Butler, Sep 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2014
  17. Yeshua1

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    and THAT would be the primary difference between these two terms!
     
  18. steaver

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    Then you believe we existed before we came into human being?
     

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