Could Jesus hate?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by webdog, Feb 26, 2007.

  1. webdog

    webdog
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    It has been said on another thread that God does not have to follow the same law He sets before man. I'm talking about the righteous, holy law (moral), not the ceremonial or social laws. Case in point; He can command men not to hate, calling it murder and sin, but He is sovereign and can hate (in the way we know hate to mean, the opposite of love) based on "Jacob I loved, Esau I hated".

    We are commanded to love even our enemies. Does this apply to God?

    Well, since Jesus is 100% God along with man, since He stated anyone who hates is a murderer, since He is God too, could He have hated(murdered) and it would not have been sin for Him? Could He have lusted (committed adultery) too? I'm not following the argument that God does not follow His own holy, righteous moral laws and the very commands He puts before man. If He tells us to be holy and righteos as He is holy and righteous, how can He do the opposite of these same righteous, holy commands placed before us?
     
    #1 webdog, Feb 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2007
  2. reformedbeliever

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    Howdy webdog. I can only answer you giving scripture. I'm sure you will appreciate that.

    Ps 5:5
    The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity.

    Leviticus 20:23 'Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I will drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them. ( is abhorred more than hate?)

    Proverbs 6:16-19
    16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
    17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil,
    19 A false witness {who} utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.

    Hosea 9:15 All their evil is at Gilgal; Indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels.

    Psalms 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.

    Proverbs 8:13 "The fear of the LORD is to hate evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way And the perverted mouth, I hate.

    There may be more, I don't have time to find them all. It seems that God commands us to not hate, but He has the right to do so. Maybe because He is perfect and can not have anything to do with imperfection, unless it is covered in Christ's blood? His perfection can not be marred with imperfection.

    We are not perfect, so can we say to another who is not perfect... I hate you? Would be be hating something that is in ourselves? Just wondering.
     
  3. bapmom

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    There are some things we cannot do simply because we are not God and we have no right to do them. God is not restricted by "not being God" because He actually IS God.

    btw, hatred is not always condemned. Hatred towards our fellow humans is condemned, but we are supposed to hate sin. God knows our hearts, and if He chooses to hate then that is His prerogative. It does not belong to the realm of humans.
     
  4. webdog

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    I agree. It's called murder by Christ. Hating an action is not the point of this thread, though, but the person doing the action.
    So Jesus could do what He commanded us not to do? Is hating our fellow man sin or not? Since Jesus is God and can do as He wished, could He hate our/His fellow man?
     
  5. bapmom

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    yes, I believe He could, webdog. There are just some rules that don't apply to God because they are specifically ABOUT the fact that we are NOT God.
     
  6. amity

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    Read about God hating Esau. Paul expressly makes the point that this was before birth, before either had an opportunity to do good or evil.
     
  7. webdog

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    You actually believe God can sin? What "rule" states this?
     
    #7 webdog, Feb 26, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 26, 2007
  8. webdog

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    I have read that and believe it is dealing with nations, not individuals.
     
  9. MB

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    Hi Bapmom;
    Excuse me but you just ignored the part about God being righteous. God is righteous because he doesn't sin. What you've just said makes Him a sinner and righteous at the same time. What is sinful isn't righteous. What is righteous is sinless. God is still righteous and sin is still sin. God doesn't sin nor has He ever sinned.
    MB
     
  10. MB

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    Hi Webdog;
    Trully this is a great OP.
    Amen
    MB
     
  11. johnp.

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    You're a fine one to call for the rules. I have asked you for the scripture that deals with God binding Himself to the law and you won't give it webdog. :) What's that?

    NU 31:15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

    No I don't. Do you? :)

    john. :)
     
  12. webdog

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    I'm still waiting on the Scripture stating God can sin.

    You twist "morals" the same way you twist everything else.
     
  13. johnp.

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    How can God sin webdog there is no law for Him to break as you have failed to show me any law He is bound by but yours. You're playing games.

    Explain how I have done this please. :)

    LK 16:22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
    LK 16:25 "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
    LK 16:27 "He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
    LK 16:29 "Abraham replied, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
    LK 16:30 " `No, father Abraham,' he said, `but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'
    LK 16:31 "He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

    That is what God does to those who do not love their neighbours. Are they His neighbours webdog?

    john.
     
  14. webdog

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    Conversation with you is fruitless. You do nothing but confuse the issue, and I think you hijack threads for that purpose only. I remember why I try to limit discussion with you.
     
  15. dwmoeller1

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    No it doesn't. I am quite certain you misconstrued what she said (assuming I understand it correctly).

    What is sin and what is righteous is bound up not in particular actions in themselves, but instead in motive and relationship.

    We know sin is not about action because Matt 5,6 and 7 makes clear that sins (ie. adultery and murder) can occur without any action at all. We also know that certain actions are sin purely because of the motives behind them. So, it is wrong to murder (ie. kill with hate) but not wrong to kill as a proper 'bearer of the sword'. Thus, sin is more appropriately viewed in terms of motive rather than action.

    In addition, sin is defined in terms of relationship - broadly delineated in terms of relationship of God to creation, creation to God, and creation to creation. So, for example, we see this with regards to vengeance. Vengeance is God's. He holds that priviledge because He as creator is ultimately the real one sinned against (ie. so when David murders and commits adultery, he still says he has sinned against God only). Thus it is not sin for God to exercise vengeance. Yet man, being merely creation himself, cannot rightly exercise vengeance on his fellow creation.

    So, what might be sin for man might not be sin for God because sin is can be defined in terms of relationship. Since God holds an essentially different relationship with creatures than creatures can hold between themselves, God can rightly relate to them in ways which would be sin for the creatures to relate to each other or God.
     
  16. dwmoeller1

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    Has no one brought his verse up yet?:

    Luke 14:26
    If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


    Just thought I would throw that in the mix.
     
  17. johnp.

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    You cannot assess what fruit is grown between us. I am not confused. You said that God is bound to the same law as we are and I have shown you scriptures that has Him doing what He forbids us to do. You said if He did that then He is an hypocrite and I said He is an Hypocrite then because He clearly does things He prohibits us doing and you said that is hypocritical. :)

    I asked you to show me scripture that tells me He has bound Himself to law and you have not done so. You are changing scripture by declaring a thing not taught and explicitly denied. God is Sovereign. I think that sums it up up to now. :) How do you recall it?

    I thought it was because you always lose. :)

    john.
     
  18. npetreley

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    I'm having no trouble at all following johnp's responses, so he hasn't confused the issue for me. And you still haven't ponied up any scripture that says God is under some law.
     
  19. amity

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    Then God hates an entire nation of people before any of them were born?

    My point is that in this case God's hatred had nothing to do with anything that was done.
     
  20. Jon-Marc

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    God is righteous and can hate righteously. We cannot do that. Our hate is governed by our emotions and our sin nature.
     

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