Could someone explain?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Trust in the Lord, Oct 8, 2003.

  1. Trust in the Lord

    Trust in the Lord
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    Taken from MSNBC News Oct 7, 2003 the story "For ailing pope, much is unfinished"

    At a recent conference on John Paul’s papacy at the Pontifical Lateran University in Rome, participants extolled other defining features of his tenure: his use of communication skills to spread Catholic teaching and make the Vatican a more visible presence abroad; his campaigning for the sanctity of marriage and of embryonic life; his focus on the cult of the Virgin Mary; and his extensive writings.

    Quote "his focus on the cult of the Virgin Mary" Unquote.

    Just what is his focus on this known cult?
     
  2. Frogman

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    Hope you get an answer brother. I would like to see what it is also. :confused: I would rather be remembered for my focus on the Son of God, the Lamb that stood as the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. The wisdom which God possessed in the beginning and in which He took delight. Is His name not enough? 'your mother and brethren are here to see you' What did He answer?

    Again, Good luck in finding an answer. They cannot speak unless Rome has spoken.

    Is this not obvious?
    Brother Dallas
     
  3. mioque

    mioque
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    If memory serves, the pope's motto is: Totus Tuus.
    Meaning: completely yours. He claims to be completely hers apparently [​IMG] (no idea what Josef's thoughts on the matter are :eek: :D ).
    I know it is originally from a little book written by the French saint Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort (1673-1716). Montfort is also the origin of the line:"To Jezus through Mary". So I suspect, you have your explanation right here. [​IMG]

    As far as I know the Cult of Mary is not some sort of organisation you can sign up with. It is a way to describe all Mary fans.
     
  4. WPutnam

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    The word "cult" has a much wider meaning in the Catholic Church then the more sinister meaning we see here in America, where it is seen as a radical departure from mainline Christianity, usually secluded in nature and where the members are intentionally cut-off from the rest of the world. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

    But not so in normal usage within the Catholic Church. For example, the "Cult of St. Francis" may refer to the disciplinary rules of the Franciscan Order, or the "Cult of Mary" speaks of that special devotion to Mary, the Mother of Jesus. In that meaning, the term is not refering to offshoot religions, but rather, movements within the Church itself.

    The rule of St. Benedict in the Benedictine Order is a "cult" withing the framework of Catholicism, as well as the one I first mentioned, the Order of St. Francis. And likewise for the other religious orders within the Catholic Church.

    In other words, the term is much more benign then the meaning we give it here in America today.

    It's like what happened to the word "gay." Strictly speaking, the root meaning of the word speaks of one who is content and happy.

    Of course, we both know what it means today in normal usage, unfortunately. It is a word that has been "hijacked" for another meaning...

    Hope the helps...

    God bless,

    PAX

    Bill+†+


    - Anima Christi -

    Soul of Christ, sanctify me.
    Body of Christ, save me.
    Blood of Christ, inebriate me.
    Water from the side of Christ, wash me.
    Passion of Christ, strengthen me.
    O good Jesus, hear me;
    Within Thy wounds hide me and permit
    me not to be separated from Thee.
    From the Wicked Foe defend me.
    And bid me to come to Thee,
    That with Thy Saints I may praise Thee,
    For ever and ever. Amen.
     
  5. Carson Weber

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    Hi mioque,

    If memory serves, the pope's motto is: Totus Tuus.

    This is my personal motto too.. the full motto is Totus Tuus Maria!

    I know it is originally from a little book written by the French saint Louis-Marie Grignion de Montfort (1673-1716).

    Yes.. you mean, True Devotion, a book, which has changed my life. ;)

    "They will perceive the splendours of this Queen and will consecrate themselves entirely to her service as subjects and slaves of love ... They will see clearly that she is the safest, easiest, shortest and most perfect way of approaching Jesus and will surrender themselves to her, body and soul, without reserve in order to belong entirely to Jesus" (True Devotion 55).
     
  6. tragic_pizza

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    The best way to Jesus is through Mary???

    And this seems orthodox to you?????

    Yeeeeeeeeeesh.
     
  7. A_Christian

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    What do we know about Mary from the BIBLE? Not
    a whole lot! We know more about Noah, Moses,
    Abraham, Jacob, Esther, Job.... Now is that
    anyway to bring attention to any queen if that
    WAS the GOD's intent.

    I guess HE left that to the Roman Catholic "cult"?
    Think about it. The Mormons call the queen of heaven Wisdom; however, she is GOD's wife. I
    guess that Mary is actually the incarnation of
    GOD's wife? That would make total sense if
    you believed she was born without original sin in the first place...

    See the can of worms you open by reading into GOD's Word. Mary is called BLESSED and Woman
    and nothing more.
     
  8. faithcontender

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    The "Mary" of the Catholic Church is not the Mary that is in the Bible.

    Consider the following titles ascribed to her:

    Holy Mother of God,
    Mother of the Church,
    Virgin most powerful,
    Seat of wisdom,
    Mystical rose,
    Tower of David,
    Tower of ivory,
    House of gold,
    Ark of the covenant,
    Gate of heaven,
    Morning star,
    Health of the sick,
    Refuge of sinners,
    Comforter of the afflicted,
    Help of Christians,
    Queen of angels,
    Queen of patriarchs,
    Queen of prophets,
    Queen of apostles,
    Queen of martyrs,
    Queen of confessors,
    Queen of virgins,
    Queen of all saints,
    Queen conceived without original sin,
    Queen assumed into heaven,
    Queen of the most holy Rosary,
    Queen of families
    Queen of peace

    These title is not to be found in the Bible. The Catholic Church is guilty of making her an idol. Even the true Mary can't accept all these things.
     
  9. John Gilmore

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    None of the above titles are scriptural. Mary is the mother of God. But she is not the Holy Mother of God because she was a sinful woman as scripture clearly attests. The title "mother of God" tells us more about Christ than it does about Mary.

    As the two natures are united personally, i. e., in one person, we believe, teach, and confess that this union is not such a copulation and connection that neither nature has anything in common with the other personally, i.e . because of the personal union, as when two boards are glued together, where neither gives anything to the other or takes anything from the other. But here is the highest communion, which God truly has with the [assumed] man, from which personal union, and the highest and ineffable communion resulting therefrom, there flows everything human that is said and believed concerning God, and everything divine that is said and believed concerning the man Christ; as the ancient teachers of the Church explained this union and communion of the natures by the illustration of iron glowing with fire, and also by the union of body and soul in man.

    Hence we believe, teach, and confess that God is man and man is God, which could not be if the divine and human natures had in deed and truth absolutely no communion with one another.

    For how could the man, the son of Mary, in truth be called or be God, or the Son of God the Most High, if His humanity were not personally united with the Son of God, and He thus had realiter, that is, in deed and truth, nothing in common with Him except only the name of God?

    Hence we believe, teach, and confess that Mary conceived and bore not a mere man and no more, but the true Son of God; therefore she also is rightly called and truly is the mother of God.


    Formula of Concord, Epitome, 1580

    [ October 08, 2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]
     
  10. swaimj

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    If my memory serves me, the Pope in his younger days made a vow to the black virgin (a Polish icon, I believe) and he credits her (it) with sparing his life in the assasination attempt some years ago. The scriptural basis for this can be found in...well, nevermind.
     
  11. mioque

    mioque
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    Carson
    One of my old employers was a Monfortian monk. (Bas van Iersel, Rector Magnificus of what is now known Radboud University)
    Are you planning to join one of the religious congregations Montfort founded?

    "The best way to Jesus is through Mary???
    And this seems orthodox to you?????"
    Eastern-Orthodox? Absolutely :D
     
  12. A_Christian

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    Well if "it" did, "it" certainly left him in one
    sorry state. Salvation comes from GOD and gifts
    of longer life come from GOD and not black virgins
    or other painted icons. You see how silly this
    all becomes. I'm sorry if I seem rather sacrilegious; however, what is gained here? First, there is know reason to suppose that dead people "Christian" or not hear one blessed thing we say. And second, we should go directly to GOD the Father through Christ and not ask friends to make GOD more gracious by appeasement and coersion.

    THE MORE TIME ONE SPENDS TALKING TO MARY, THE LESS TIME ONE HAS FOR THE HEAVENLY FATHER. NOW WHOM IS MORE DESERVING? My grandmother was a "good" Roman Catholic and she is now dead and I don't chat with her anymore-----AND I KNEW HER, PERSONALLY! I never met Mary and she never met me. I'm sure that she is far to busy praising GOD then to bother caring about what is happening here on planet Earth. [​IMG]
     
  13. Carson Weber

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    Hi Tragic,

    Jesus came to us through Mary, and he asks that we return to him through Mary; this is why he gave Mary to the beloved disciple as his mother during his Crucifixion. Mary's motherhood nourishes us in our spiritual infancy, nourishing us with the life of Jesus, turning our faces and hearts to her divine son. ;)
     
  14. tragic_pizza

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    That's quite a logical leap. Out of the whole of Scripture, this one verse, interpreted not as our Savior making sure Mary was cared for but as some kind of coded message that the way to Him was through her, against the volumes of Scripture quite specifically and unambiguously stating that nothing, repeatnothing, stands between the redeemer and His redeemed.

    Read Hebrews. Read Romans.

    Tell ya what, bro, pick a book, any book, either canonical or deuterocanonical, which specifically and unambiguously states that one, to "really" get to Christ, must first go through Mary. Not there; in fact, unless one wildly interprets the woman giving birth in revelation as anything but an oracle depicting the Church, there's no mention of Mary whatsoever outside of the Gospels.
     
  15. A_Christian

    A_Christian
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    Carson Weber:

    Jesus Christ came to us by Mary, and HE NEVER even implied anyting of the sort.

    As for placing Mary in the care of a close friend,
    any decent person then or now would have done as much.

    You are reaching here and your missing the rung.
     
  16. Yelsew

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    Maybe Nicodemus was on to something, maybe it is possible to re-enter the womb, so that the only way to get to Jesus is.....well, you figure it out!

    The only thing that Mary had (past tense) to do with the salvation of mankind, is that the Savior used her womb as the means to manifestation of His humanity so that he could be the Atonement for sins, thus the savior of ALL mankind, that is, ALL who have faith in Him. Mary's Job was completed, and she now rests in the arms of her savior, her son, Jesus in whom she too must have faith.
     
  17. Frogman

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    This is getting worse all the time. This is idolotry, no way around it. There is one mediator between God and man and this is Jesus Christ.

    yelsew, it is nice to be able to be in agreement with you. [Not recanting on the truth that the ALL will be only the elect, but in much agreement with your post nonetheless].

    Bro. Dallas
     
  18. neal4christ

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    Carson,

    I have a serious request of you; I am not trying to play the bashing game. Could you please give me your warrant for going from the fact that Christ gave Mary to John to your assertion that Jesus asks that we return to him through Mary? Why is this interpretation of the factual event (the giving of Mary to John) correct? Where did it come from and what is the warrant for it? I would appreciate it, because I can not see how you go from A to B. Thank-you.

    In Christ,
    Neal
     
  19. thessalonian

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    " But she is not the Holy Mother of God because she was a sinful woman as scripture clearly attests"

    First of all, I think you jump the gun a bit when you say that scripture attests to her sinfulness. Perhaps you could show us where she sinned? We know where each of the 12 Apostles sinned and where the Apostle Paul sinned. Do you have a sin that Mary committed from scripture.

    Secondly:
    So God is the only one to whom the word holy is attached to in the scriptures? Your arguement is nonsense. There are holy, nations, holy ones, holy one (aaron), holy men, holy women,...... Does that mean they were sinless. Holy in one sense means dedicated to God though in the ultimate sense being sinless would be completely dedicated to God. Your arguement is unbiblical.

    \Blessings
     
  20. thessalonian

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    What greater love is there for a son than a Mother's love? To reflect on Mary and the love that she had for Jesus is to learn how we can grow closer to Jesus. The mother (Mary) points to the son. To reflect on a son's love for his Mother shows how Christ loves the Church, placing it in the care of those who love him the most. To close your mind to these things is to limit yourself to a great share of the truths of the Gospel.

    Someone above said that we know little about Mary from the Bible. Not true. There are over 1500 verses from the Old Testament that point to her. Of course Protestants in their "Mary was a sinful vessel that Christ "used" to get in to this world...." view will never grasp the fruits of reflecting on Mary as the Mother of God in light of the Gospel. Anyone can pick an apple at the bottom of the tree but for one to grasp the apple on the very top requires vission and effort.

    Blessings
     

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