Could the "National I.D." be (or become later) the Mark of the Beast?

Just try this and imagine... look now at verse 12 and see if you can figure out what those who DO have the mark of the beast must do or not do? can anyone figure it out?

Revelation 14:
6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that DO NOT receive the computer chip.



and then I would say hey everybody! I'll bet then that the mark of the beast has something to do with receiving a computer chip!

and everybody would say THAT IS ABSURD! totally unsubstatiated by scripture!

 

It doesn't matter what it is. As I said, I won't be here. The raptured-ones will be in heaven. All born again believer will be there. But your eschatology is so messed up along with a works salvation, and a belief in a Christ who has not fully atoned for our sins that perhaps it is possible you will go through the Tribulation. "Let every man examine himself to see whether he is in the faith."

There are many factors to take into consideration. Isn't it odd how man "Americans" think in terms of the "Americanization" of the entire world. You can't think "outside the box." That is you can't think beyond your own borders. You are one nation, and compared to China and India, a relatively small one. Those two nations put together have one third of the world's population. To think that the American President (or any other American) is going to impose a computer chip, or whatever it may be, on all the people living in the remotest areas of India and in China, and in other such nations is absurd. What about all the nations so opposed to America--All of Islam--over one billion of them? If the Antichrist comes from America or that computer chip is American what will the Muslim world do? Bow in submission to the Great Satan--America? I think not!!

The mark of the beast, 666, is the number of man. (Rev. 13:18)

When Jesus comes back at the end of the Tribulation he will be coming back for "his own," that is the nation of Israel. The Jews will be saved as a nation (Rom.11:26). They are the saints referred to in the Book of Revelation. They are God's People in Tribulation Period. The two things that the Tribulation Period center around is God's wrath being poured out on the ungodly, and the salvation of the Jews. The Christians won't even be there. They are raptured before that time.

 

Being the Nation of Israel, it is also the reason THEY are to be KEEPING the JEWISH Law. They will be build and go to the temple, keeping the commandment IN ACCORDANCE with JEWISH LAW. It isn't that hard to understand if people would stop alagorizing large portions of their bibles

 

The rapture happens in Rev 19 and 20 at the "FIRST" resurrection called the "Resurrection of the Dead in Christ" in 1Thess 4 and described in sequence in Matt 24.

 

Well we differ greatly there...

We (the Church) are not appointed unto wrath and Revelation is the pouring out of Gods wrath. We hold that Rev. is literalistic and not allegorical.

 

You have to study the Time Prophecies in both the books of Daniel and Revelation to come to an understanding of who the Beast is, to start with. Daniel is the key to unlocking Revelation and Revelation is the key to unlocking Daniel.

Then once you have done that you can look and realize that the 666 is the number of a man, who is the Pope.

and the entire thing with the Judgment starting and the Sanctuary doctrine and the Commandments and the Sabbath and Sunday all begins to fall into place.

It all must fit together like a puzzle. And it all must correspond with each other. Which it does, if you allow the Bible to explain itself without trying to strain at things. You have to just take the Bible as it reads. It is very plain.

Claudia

 

Uh, excuse me. I have studied prophesy quite exhaustively and there is more OT books to be studied that Daniel and Revelation. What you call the time prophesies... is the exact reason I do not hold to a preteristic alagorical view of scriptures. (well that and historical data, science, and other promises and convent declarations by God to His chosen people the Jewish Nation in the OT).

No, your view does not allow the bible to explain itself because you hold an allegorical veiw point toward it. You (as in your view) have to interpret what YOU think it is saying. If we allow scripture to speak for itself these are some of the things that should have occured (with regard to Rev) being something that has - for the most part - already happened) 1/4 of all life in the oceans to have died, 1/4 of all animals on land to have died, ALL the green grass in the world to have died for a time period. 1/3 of all naval fleets (boats) in the ocean to have been destroyed. Demons to be unleashed upon the earth in visible form aflicting all mankind except for 144,000 Jews (12,000 from each tribe listed there in) And that death is taken from the earth for (I think but I'm not sure) for 4 months. People will seek death but it will flee from them. Not to mention the Literal Nation of Israel building their temple to worship God in again. Then they as a Nation will acknowledge God (those who survived the slaughter of 2/3 of them) and become His people once more FULFILLING the rest of the OT Prophesies that are DEPENDENT on that in the end times. There are Many, Many more that have NEVER happened historically. These are things yet future.

However, you will not change your view so I will leave it there.

 

Well when you take a look at the mystery beast of Revelation 13, you begin to see that it is the same beasts in Daniel. You cannot come to any other conclusion. nd the entire Time Prophecy ends up with the Papacy.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed and all the world wondered after the beast. " Revelation 13:1-3.

The beast of Revelation 13 is made up of various parts. Each of its parts represents something. And you turn to the Book of Daniel to understand because you see the same beasts there that altogether make up this multi-faceted beast of Revelation.

Daniel unlocks Revelation.

So look at Daniel 7:2:

"Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of heaven strove upon the great sea." Daniel 7:2

The winds of heaven are blowing on the waters, causing a frenzy.

So first we have to see what the Bible says "waters" stands for. So we turn to chapter 17 of Revelation and it tells us:

"And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. " Revelation 1 7.15.

Well that was easy, right? As I said, the Bible explains itself. Waters represent peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

And so what then is the wind? In the Scriptures the wind has always been used as a symbol of war:

"Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will raise up against Babylon, and against them that dwell in the midst of them that rise up against me, a destroying wind .... Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets." Jeremiah 51:1,4.

And so you have the people to be in a state of war. That is what is being pictured in this Time Prophecy.

And then everything starts to change, which of course it would under these turbulent conditions and we see this:

'And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. " Daniel 7.3.

So here we start to break things down in this multi-part beast of Revelation 17. We have now the first beast. The prophet describes him in this way:

"The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. " Daniel 7.-4.

Well who is this lion? We read:

"The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble: anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail. Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan unto the habitation of the strong." Jeremiah 50:43,44.

It is the Babylonian Empire which arose in the year 606 B.C. Then what are the wings? You can look in the British Museum where they took a stone from the ancient city of Babylon and it portrays a lion with wings! The lion with wings is the symbol of the old city of Babylon. You can find that in various literature today.

The symbol of a "man's heart" is used to denote "weakness" as a "heart of stone" means that you just ruthlessly do things to promote the interests of your kingdom.

The phrase "the man's heart" tells us there would be a time of weakness when Babylon would be overcome and destroyed, and this would open the way for a second world kingdom.

"...and behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it. and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh." Daniel 7.5.

And so the symbol of a bear is God's "cartoon figure" of the next world power.

We will find that it was Persia conquered the world in the year 538 B.C.

The bear was depicted as devouring three ribs in its mouth. Well wouldnt you know it... Old Babylon was composed of exactly three provinces, namely, Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt. Persia destroyed all three!

God says the bear raised himself on one side. When Medo-Persia became strong, the Persians then overthrew the Medes.

Going on we read (and remember this is describing all the individual parts of the big multi faceted beast of Revelation 17:

"After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl, the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. Daniel 7.6.

It was Greece that was the next universal power in world history, and it developed in the year 331 B.C. The fact that the beast had four wings meant it would swiftly conquer the world.

Well wouldnt you know it that Alexander the Great conquered the world in only twelve years, which back then would've been considered to be a miracle.

Okay now the beast has 4 heads.

Alexander died young without leaving anybody to carry on the kingdom. And his realm was divided among the four generals-Cassander, Lysimachus, Seleucus, Ptolemy. These generals would continue to rule the world under the fourth beast.

Then God tells us that another world power would rise soon:

"After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. Daniel 7:7.

This fourth beast is old pagan Rome which began its reign in the year 168 B.C. It had great iron teeth, meaning it was a great world power. Edward Gibbon, when writing about the history of Rome, describes the Roman enemies as being "broken by the iron monarchy of Rome".
We have now come in history to the time of the cross.

Okay now we come down to the time of the Cross. Pagan Rome was the ruling power of the world when Jesus was born, and it was under pagan rule that He was crucified in A.D. 31.

Pagan philosophy was at that time taking over the world... but Jesus was going to give them light.

And so when you look at this Beast of Revelation you can see its various parts all described in the Book of Daniel. The time prophecies of history all fit together, like God knew exactly what kingdom would come next and next and next, which of course He did.

And you cant come to any other conclusion but that Rome is the Beast. Once you discover that, then other prophecies begin to unfold. And the entire thing fits together like a puzzle.

You discover the Pope's name adds to 666 and so forth, VICARIUS FELI DEI "Vicar of Christ" on his Pope Hat. He thinks he speaks for Christ.

 

Oh yes you can. While I agree withmuch of THIS portion, I disagree with most other parts. BTW - the wind is not always used as symbolic actually not often at all. We find it being used in Act 2 with reference to the Holy SPirit (a might rushing wind) and also in John 3 speaking again of the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact you can find wind and the more synonamous with the Holy Spirit and His work amoung man than you can remotely pull it to sybolize war.

Like here, you add lib, conject, and use presupposition to come to this conclusion.

But as I said we differ, and I will leave it alone. This is not a thread on Rev.
Let us just agree to disagree.

 

well I dont think it is mere conjecture when the Popes name always adds up to 666 in Roman Numerals VICARIUS FELI DEI which means "Vicar of Christ" --Christ lives through him, vicariously. The Pope claims to be in the position to speak for Christ and to even change His Word. He speak blasphemies just by his "name" which is outlined in Revelation 13. His name not only must add to 666, but he also must speak blasphemies against God ... Blasphemy means putting yourself in the place of God.



"The Pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret, even divine laws....The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth with most ample power of binding and loosing the sheep."-From the Prompta Bibliotheca published in 1900 in Rome by the press of the propaganda.

"The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ."-Decretal de Translat, Episcop. Cap.
The pope's will stands for reason. He can dispense above the law, and of wrong make right by correcting and changing laws."-Pope Nicholas, Dis. 96.


Then add that the prophecy of the 42 months which fits as well. It just all fits together and there is no denying who it is. And after you discover all these Time Prophecies you just cannot help but to come to this conclusion. The deadly wound that was healed, etc... There is just too much.


Revelation 13:
4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

 

Yeah--Hitler's name added up to 666.
So did Mussolini's
And BTW so did Clinton's according to some so-called scholars.
So shall we try for Bush as well?

 

Ronald (six lettered middle name) Reagan - 666
Yeah I have heard the that stuff too.

 

And so do you believe God put that there for no reason? Dont you think He wanted us to find out whose name added to 666?

and dont you think its a good idea to understand the rest of the Prophesies so that you can fit them altogether and know who the beast is? Or do you just say "oh well it says 666 lets just ignore it"?

What do you think we ought to do with that verse about 666?

 

God doesn't expect us to know everything--like the time of his retrun. In fact he warns us against trying to figure out when he will return. No man knows the time of his coming.
Since the rapture will occur before the Tribulation I have no need to know what the number is. Such speculation is not edifying and many times simply leads to needless disaster--often by the SDA and their various splinter groups.
It was an SDA group from Britain, who in 1987 predicted that Christ would return in October of that year, at a certain place in Nigeria. These people pulled their children out of school, sold their possessions--all of them, and then made a pilgrimmage to Nigeria. There on the appointed Mount, they awaited for the return of Christ. When the day passed, and some more time passed, they felt ashamed, and returned home. The article didn't say what happened to them after that.
Needless speculation and sensationalism is very unwise. It is better to stick with what we do know what the Scriptures say, instead of guessing what the Scripture does not say.

Mark Twain once said:
It is not the things that I don't know in the Bible that bother me;
But the things that I do know!

I will never know who the Antichrist is. I will never know who the false prophet is. I will never know what the mark of the beast is. None of those people or things will affect me. I am born again of the Spirit of God, and I will be gone, resurrected, before those things will even be revealed. To speculate on them therefore is irrelevant.

 

#1. I never heard of such a thing.
#2. It was a Baptist group that went to Gianna with Rev Jim Jones.

My argument is that i don't hold Baptists responsible for that nor do I blame baptists for any mistakes that William Miller may have made in his views of the end of the world.

But to his credit he WAS arguing for a pre-millennial second coming in direct opposition to the Christian popular consensus against it.

SDAs did not write those doctrinal truths into the bible - God did.

by declaring yet another section of the Bible as something that you need not concern yourself with - you continue a pattern that is very dangerous.

having said that - I agree with you on knowing the difference between "pure speculation" like the arguments we see for pre-trib rapture and some of the common popular ideas about antichrist -- vs what the Bible ACTUALLY says!

in Christ,

Bob

 

The rapture happens in Rev 19 and 20 at the "FIRST" resurrection called the "Resurrection of the Dead in Christ" in 1Thess 4 and described in sequence in Matt 24.

indeed. But it is clear in 1Thess 4 that "The dead in Christ rise FIRST" and it is clear in Rev 20:4 that the "FIRST RESURRECTION is the resurrection of the blessed and holy ones"

So it is clear that the FIRST resurrection is being described by Paul in 1Thess 4 "the dead in Christ RISE FIRST".

It is also clear that that same sequence is shown in Matt 24.

The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end

 

It's actually six-hundred and sixty-six. No one's name can add up to that.

And what language would we use for the name anyway? I don't think the number can be found using the methods people think they can use.

The Greek actually does say "six-hundred sixty-six."

 

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast. for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Revelation 13:18.

When the pope is crowned he is given the official title of Vicarius Filii Dei, which means Vicar of the Son of God.


Roman Numerals

V=5
l=1
C=100
A=0
R=0
l=1
U=5
S=0​

F=0
l=1
L=50
l=1
l=1​

D=500​

E=0
I=1

112
+
53
+
501=666​

Latin, of course, is the official language of the Papacy, and therefore we would expect to find the Roman numerals adding up his number. It is surprising why so few in this enlightened generation are unaware of the Bible prediction. One of the most amazing facts is that you can do this in the Latin, in the Hebrew, or in the Greek. It will all add up to the same-666.

 

The New Testament was written and Greek and didn't use Roman Numerals,

 

But how could that be someone's name?