Covenantal or non-Covenantal?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Tom Butler, Jan 16, 2015.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    In another thread, Dr. Bob described his church as
    I know the definitions Particular Baptist and Reformed Baptist, but I'm not sure what non-covenantal (or covenantal) means.

    So, rather than derail the other thread, I simply ask for definitions and how they relate to Baptist congregations.
     
  2. Greektim

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    I'm guessing neither dispensational nor covenantal (as in covenant theology). The main issue Baptists have w/ covenant theology is the theological covenants of grace and works. I'm guessing he traces the story of redemption through the medium of covenants. But these are biblical covenants that Scripture unpacks. Like the covenants with Abraham, Israel, David, and the New. Just a guess though. As a reformed baptist, that is where I am.
     
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Im told that we "Old School" Baptists came from the Particular Baptists & not Reformed Baptists that I have trouble understanding....can somebody explain the differences? Both hold to DoG Theology ....correct? :confused:
     
  4. preachinjesus

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    This is what I would expect. It means dispensational Reformed. An acceptable position since Calvinism necessitates covenant theology.
     
  5. Jerome

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    Particular Baptist was moreso a British term; here in America, the term Regular Baptist was mainly used when contrasting us with General Baptists.
    Anti-Missions Baptists and Reformed Baptists separately branched off from the rest of us at about the same time, around the 1820s. Since they originated contemporaneously, it's hard to imagine someone trying to argue that the Anti-Missions Baptists were descended from the Reformed Baptists.

    http://www.leroygarrett.org/restorationreview/article.htm?rr18_04/rr18_04b.htm&18&4&1976

     
    #5 Jerome, Jan 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2015
  6. Yeshua1

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    believe that he was stating that his church holds to reformed views on salvation, but Dispy views on eschatology...
     
  7. JamesL

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    Ah, but Eschatology is a subdoctrine under the umbrella of Soteriology..

    When OT prophecies were looking forward to Kingdom of Righteousness, it was called salvation - through the Anointed One (who coincidentally died on behalf of sinners)

    As mentioned previously, Calvinism necessitates Covenant Theology, not Dispensationalism. Those who try to divorce Eschatology from Soteriology are committing doctrinal injustice and scriptural abuse
     
  8. The Biblicist

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    There are variations within dispensationalism as well as in Covenant theology.

    I am a covenant theologian in regard to the "everlasting covenant" being the only covenant of individual salvation without works and without external rituals, which various aspects of that single covenant are unpacked in various symbolic covenant dispensations including the "new" covenant dispensation.

    However, I am not a Covenant Theologian in regard to circumcision and baptism being introductory rites to the "everlasting covenant." Circumcision is a type that is the introductory ritual symbol of regeneration that brings a person into an earthly administrative type (Old Covenant) of the everlasting covenant. Baptism on the other hand is the introductory symbol that brings a person into an earthly administrative dispensation of the everlasting Covenant. Both the "old" and "new" are earthly dispensational administrative covenants, that have a "worldly sanctuary" (sanctuary found in this world) built after a divine plan, with a qualified ministry and qualified ordinances.

    However, neither the "Old" or the "new" dispensational administrations made any difference in regard to individual and personal salvation under the "everlasting covenant" as that has always been without any external rituals altogether whether circumcision or baptism but is in relationship with the very same gospel preached by all the prophets (Acts 10:43) prior to the cross including under Moses (Heb. 4:2) before the cross as it continues since the cross.
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    That is way I see a distinction made between those holding to a Reformed Calvinism, and those holding to a more traditioanlly Baptist one, as in Dispy...
     
  10. Earth Wind and Fire

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    You think Dispy Theology is more traditionally Baptist?!? Really!
     
  11. Greektim

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    I was thinking the same thing. Maybe since the 1950's, but Baptists have been around for a long time... longer than dispensationalism has been around.
     
  12. Reformed

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    In Reformed theology there are two major covenants: the Covenant of Works and the Covenant of Grace (sometimes called the Covenant of Redemption). The CoW applied only to Adam. Adam, pre-fall, would have been justified by his obedience to God's law had he never sinned. Of course Adam did sin and consequently became a covenant breaker.

    The CoG was promised in the Old Testament and realized after Christ's resurrection. It will be perfected in the eternal state.

    There are other covenants that fall under the auspices of both covenants. Some say that the Old Covenant was a republication of the Covenant of Works in that the Old Covenant could never save. The Abrahamic Covenant was actually rooted in the Covenant of Grace. The Davidic Covenant pointed towards the coming Messiah. The New Covenant was made between Christ and His elect from all time.

    Baptist systematic theology was not fully vetted among Calvinistic Baptists in the 16th and 17th centuries. English Particular Baptists were more concerned about legitimatizing their existence as opposed to English Presbyterians who questioned their legitimacy.

    Most of the scholarly work on Baptist Covenant Theology was done in the later half of the 20th and into the 21st centuries. It is not that Baptist Covenant Theology did not exist before these times, it is just that it was not of primary importance. The importance grew when many Particular Baptists rejected what John Nelson Darby was doing with his Dispensational Theology in the mid-19th century.

    Most Reformed Baptist churches that subscribe to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith are more likely (but not exclusively) to be covenantal.

    A good resource is The Distinctiveness of Baptist Covenant Theology by Pascal Denault.
     
    #12 Reformed, Jan 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2015
  13. Reformed

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    The difference between Baptist and Presbyterian Covenant Theology has to do with the continuity of the Abrahamic Covenant. Baptist Covenant Theologians believe in the discontinuity of the Abrahamic Covenant; that baptism is not a one-for-one covenant sign replacement for circumcision.
     
  14. OldRegular

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    Darby's pre-trib-Dispensational doctrine is by no means traditionally Baptist. The Book by Tom Nettles, By His Grace and For His Glory, clearly shows this.

    Darby's pre-trib-Dispensational began to make inroads into Baptist thought after Scofield produced his Bible!
     
  15. OldRegular

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    Historically Particular Baptists, and Southern Baptists in general, held to the Doctrines of Grace. General Baptists tended to be weaker on these doctrines.

    In an above post I mentioned the book By His Grace and For His Glory in which Tom Nettles documents the slide of those Baptists holding the Doctrines of Grace into Arminianism. I may be wrong but I believe the name Reformed Baptists cropped up after some Southern Baptist Churches began to reclaim their heritage of the Doctrines of Grace.
     
  16. Iconoclast

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    In the 1970"s Reformed Baptists came about through the family bible conferences sponsored mainly by 2 main churches.

    Those pastors were invited into Southern Baptist churches as guest speakers at their conferences and churches. God used the faithful proclamation of the word to advance truth among the weakened southern Baptists and help advance and solidify truth calling them back to their roots.
     
  17. John Toppass

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    Yes, we Baptists have been around a looooong time. In fact, I believe there are indications of the first Baptists in Exodus 16:7,8
     

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