Dallas Theological Seminary Makes A Horrible Choice!

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by Martin, Aug 27, 2005.

  1. Martin

    Martin
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    From Christianitytoday.com

    One week after settling a lawsuit brought by the victim of one of its former students, Dallas Theological Seminary officials will go to court Monday to face another of that student's victims.

    As Weblog noted in 2001, Jon Gerrit Warnshuis was apparently expelled from the seminary in 1988 when, the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram reports, "a prominent Dallas man confronted seminary officials about the molestation of his son, who was then 12 or 13."

    After four years of counseling, the seminary let Warnshuis back in. "We believe that people should be given a second chance if they turn their lives around," former seminary president Donald Campbell explained to the Star-Telegram in 2001. He graduated in 1992 and eventually became a pastor at Oak Hills Evangelical Free Church.

    In December 2001, Warnshuis pled guilty to molesting three minor boys while at Oak Hills, including Aaron Babb, and is now serving a 40-year sentence.

    "Police believe that Warnshuis victimized dozens of children from Grapevine, Dallas, Laredo, Argyle, California, and elsewhere," the Star-Telegram's Darren Barbee wrote yesterday.

    Seminary officials never told the churches where Warnshuis worked what they knew about him. They said they weren't clear what their obligations were, both to the churches and to Warnshuis. Babb and at least one other victim say the seminary was obligated to say something. The other victim settled his case out of court under undisclosed terms. But Babb apparently rejected a monetary settlement and wants the case to go to court.

    Seminary spokesman A. Larry Ross told the Star-Telegram that the seminary had acted appropriately given the information it had at the time.

    The judge's decision in that matter may have broad implications on the responsibilities of seminaries.

    ___________________________

    This is an outrage!! I will never, and I mean NEVER suggest anyone attend that school. What kind of excuse is that, "we did not know what our obligations were"??? O, come on!! OPEN YOUR BIBLE! What do you think your MORAL obligations are? :mad: :mad:

    Hopefully DTS will either change or close its doors. There is no excuse for this kind of moral stupidity. Since the seminary KNEW of the issues they are morally obligated to do something to keep other children from being abused. As it is, because Dallas Theological Seminary did NOTHING, this pervert has "victimized dozens of children from Grapevine, Dallas, Laredo, Argyle, California, and elsewhere,"! There is NO excuse for this.

    Martin.
     
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Every seminary official who was involved in this cover-up of Roman Catholic proportions should be named, shamed, fired, and arrested for aiding and abbetting a crime.

    If the Seminary does not take decisive action, then Godly churches should seperate from any affiliation from them.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  3. Convicted by the Spirit

    Convicted by the Spirit
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    Martin you are right their is zero excuses for this or the Catholic scandal. Jon will have to answer to God and God alone for what he has done to those children. I pray he repents and finds the love of God so overwhelming that it changes him while in prison. I hope you would pray for Jon as well and let not your heart be troubled and over burdened by this.
     
  4. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303
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    That is amazing and very sad.
     
  5. mcdirector

    mcdirector
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    I do pray that the officials at the school stand up and admit their wrong. It will go a long way towards healing.
     
  6. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    Maybe even admit THEY'RE wrong while they are at it. [​IMG]
     
  7. mcdirector

    mcdirector
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    I obviously need to quit posting. I make too many grammatical errors in my haste -- errors that I should catch -- and then the edit time is up.
     
  8. mcdirector

    mcdirector
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    ACH! that sounded defensive and I didn't mean for it too -- I'm glad someone is catching my mistakes! I just WISH it was ME! Bleh!
     
  9. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    Don't sweat it, McD, I make plenty of typos as well!
     
  10. mcdirector

    mcdirector
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    thanks MP -- too, to, two -- I know the difference between those TOO.

    OK, Sunday afternoon, typo after typo, lunch done . . . Nap seems in order!
     
  11. The Shogun

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    Woa! Woa! Woa!..... I am as outraged as the next guy at this person's actions.

    However, let's have a little bigger view of the whole picture where the Seminary is concerned.

    1) The Seminary is there to train God-called ministers sent to them (and affirmed) by local congregations.

    2) The Seminaries generally do not try to disallow students that have been affirmed and sent by local congregations....

    3) Governmental regulations such as HIPPA (and a thousand other acronyms) really gum up all the works. It would appear on face value that the seminary had an obligation to share what it knew with a prospective church, however, I am not sure that it could -- legally. The student would have probably had grounds to sue the seminary ......

    4) Most all grad schools (seminaries included) now are required to 'refer' students for open positions and can no longer 'recommend' students for positions. Placement offices have to be real careful nowdays...

    I just point these things out to say that the issue is not just as black and white as it may appear on face value. The Seminary was in a tough spot. The real error on the seminary's part was probably the re-admission of the student – and is what put the seminary in the middle of this mess…
     
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

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    No excuses. The guy was expelled for good reason, should never have been allowed back in, and his past certainly should not have been covered up. This is black and white as far as I am concerned, and all who were involved in the cover up of the crime should be named, shamed, fired, and arrested.

    As to point #2, do you think they should allow a student from an Alliance of Baptists Church in and then endorse their liberal heresy to a local congregation elsewhere? I don't think so.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  13. Martin

    Martin
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    The Shogun,

    You said:
    1) The Seminary is there to train God-called ministers sent to them (and affirmed) by local congregations.

    ==The Seminary is there to train "God-called ministers" not sick perverts. Once the school realized what this guy was they should have expelled him and never allowed him back on campus, they should also have done everything within their power to notify the proper authorities and church leaders so that this guy could be stopped.
    ___________________________________

    You said:
    2) The Seminaries generally do not try to disallow students that have been affirmed and sent by local congregations....

    ==Well they knew this guy was trouble and they re-admitted him (and then kept quite about what they knew). If Dallas Theological Seminary allows perverts like this into their program...they are worse than I thought.
    __________________________________________

    You said:
    3) Governmental regulations such as HIPPA (and a thousand other acronyms) really gum up all the works. It would appear on face value that the seminary had an obligation to share what it knew with a prospective church, however, I am not sure that it could -- legally. The student would have probably had grounds to sue the seminary ......

    ==Well now the seminary has been sued twice (more may come) and it has lost the respect of many. Not only that, like Jimmy Swagart (sp?), it has put a black eye on the body of Christ. The seminary should have followed Peter's advice:

    "For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly. For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God...For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong" 1Peter 2:19-20,3:17

    Dallas Theological Seminary would have better of, spirtually and morally, to have made known what they knew about this pervert even if he sued them for it. Then they could have dealt with his sinful lawsuit and, at the same time, known that they did the morally right thing. Yes they would have suffered but they would have suffered for doing what was right in the sight of God!

    As it is they are now suffering for doing the wrong thing (sin), and rightfully so! I pray that the doors of Dallas Theological Seminary close forever.

    All Christians should boycott Dallas Theological Seminary. Nobody should attend the school nor should Christian work at the school. There are other CHRISTIAN seminaries in the area (SWBTS, etc). There is ZERO excuse for the immoral actions of Dallas Theological Seminary.

    Keep in mind what the police believe about this man who Dallas Seminary, in effect, protected:

    "Police believe that Warnshuis victimized dozens of children from Grapevine, Dallas, Laredo, Argyle, California, and elsewhere"


    Only God truly knows how many children this pervert hurt all because Dallas Seminary did not do the right thing. How many lives have been ruined by this pervert thanks, in part, to Dallas Theological Seminary?

    I say, I would hate to be in their shoes on the day of judgment...

    "but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea. Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes" Matt 18:6-7

    _______________________________________

    You said:
    The Seminary was in a tough spot. The real error on the seminary's part was probably the re-admission of the student – and is what put the seminary in the middle of this mess…

    ==The seminary was NOT,and may I repeat was NOT, in a tough spot morally or Biblically. The right thing to do in this situation was/is very clear and they chose not to do the right thing. They are a disgrace to seminaries everywhere.

    Martin.
     
  14. Martin

    Martin
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    Joseph_Botwinick,

    You said:
    and all who were involved in the cover up of the crime should be named, shamed, fired, and arrested.

    ==AMEN to that!

    Sadly this probably goes up very high in the schools administration. One person defending the school is its former president Donald Campbell (president before Swindall). I am not saying he was involved in the cover up but he is certainly circling the wagons (as I imagine the school will shortly start doing in mass now that Christianitytoday has reported their crime).


    Martin.
     
  15. gb93433

    gb93433
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    It is rather clear that you don't know much about SWBTS either.
     
  16. The Shogun

    The Shogun
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    Gentlemen .... Please re-read my post both for content and tone.

    I never said that Dallas was squeaky clean ... they made really poor judgment in the re-admission. But -- once they readmitted the student they were stuck by certain laws and government imposed restrictions on what they could say and could not say......

    If the guy lied (or the church lied) on his application -- he should have been kicked out and not re-admitted....... if he told the truth and DTS honestly thought he was 'changed' then DTS did what they thought best at the time....

    Seminaries do not call or ordain ministers..... the local church does...(at least in SBC life) the seminary exists for the churches ...... the local church that ordained and recommended the guy to the seminary has plenty of the ‘blame’ to share with DTS.....

    Also .... the local church who called the guy to a position also has an obligation to do 'due diligence' before they called the minister -- clearly they did not do a background check ... ..his past would have been easy to find…..
     
  17. Martin

    Martin
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    gb93433,

    You said:
    It is rather clear that you don't know much about SWBTS either.

    ==What don't I know about Southwestern? Have they done the same thing?

    Martin.
     
  18. Martin

    Martin
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    The Shogun,


    You said:
    I never said that Dallas was squeaky clean ... they made really poor judgment in the re-admission. But -- once they readmitted the student they were stuck by certain laws and government imposed restrictions on what they could say and could not say......

    ==Ok. However as a seminary are they or are they not morally, and Biblically, ordered to do what is right even if that runs them into legal trouble? That is my point. Also, as I pointed out, they have gotten themselves into more serious trouble by obeying the above cited laws. Now they have lost respect because of their poor witness for Christ, they have faced at least two lawsuits (and maybe more), and those who are guilty will have to answer to God for their guilt. I still say they would have better off doing what is right, facing one lawsuit, and maybe paying a fine. Morally and Biblically that would have been far better.

    ______________________________________________

    You said:
    If the guy lied (or the church lied) on his application -- he should have been kicked out and not re-admitted....... if he told the truth and DTS honestly thought he was 'changed' then DTS did what they thought best at the time....

    ==The guy was a child molester (sp?) you don't, under any circumstances, readmit them into the school. If you do readmit them you make sure all future churches where they may be hired on as a minister of some sort are aware of the guys past so they can make informed decisions. If the student does not like that condition then maybe they have not truly repented. Why do I say that? Because they are still trying to hide their sin and because the repeat rates on crimes like this are sky high and one slip will destroy a child's life. No chances can be taken with these people.

    He should not, under any circumstances, have been allowed back into the school and the school should have made sure it did its part in informing the community (etc) about the danger this wolf in sheeps clothing posed.

    ____________________________________________

    You said:
    Seminaries do not call or ordain ministers..... the local church does...(at least in SBC life) the seminary exists for the churches ...... the local church that ordained and recommended the guy to the seminary has plenty of the ‘blame’ to share with DTS.....

    ==I agree, however I don't know the name of the church. Also two wrongs don't make a right. DTS must be held accountable for its own sin. I agree with what was said earlier. Those in DTS who with held information that caused children to be harmed should be exposed, shamed, fired, and arrested.

    The Seminary is responsible to give important information to churches considering hiring this man.

    ________________________________________

    Martin.
     
  19. Paul33

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    Readmitting a sexual predator was their mistake.

    O yeah, I know, the Bible says that that is what some of you were (1 Cor. 6:9). But this is a case of a man molesting a child.

    Readmitting child molestors to "seminary" to train for the "ministry" is the height of arrogance. They "thought" they could change him or that he was changed through "counseling."

    Hmmm.

    Can God forgive a child molestor? Yes.
    Should we then elevate him to the pastorate? No.

    He violated trust with a minor.

    And then DTS validated this man with a theology degree!

    How stupid can you get.

    Maybe we need to go back and clean house with all of the sexually immoral men in the ministry.

    I for one am a little disgusted with the number of divorced men in the ministry.
     
  20. go2church

    go2church
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    If the guy worked for DTS, then all anyone attached to the school can legally do is confirm that he worked for them, the dates and if he quit or was fired. Even if he was fired they can't give details, only that he was fired. It is a very difficult situation for human resource departments.

    Doesn't make it right what happened, but when they say the were not clear about their obligations, I am sure that this is what they were refering to. I think we can be pretty sure that the folks at DTS knew what the bible said about the situation.
     

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