Deacons wives... faithful in all things.

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by sleeves77, Mar 18, 2010.

  1. sleeves77

    sleeves77
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    1 Tim 3:11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.

    "faithful in all things." Is the thought "black and white," "yes or no," "up or down." or is this simply "general guidance."?

    If a deacons wife comes to only Sunday services and not Wednesday is she "faithfull in all things.?" What about if she misses Sunday evening too?

    thoughts?
     
  2. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
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    Quite an unusual first post! Are you a pastor? Why are you asking?

    I think it depends on why she is missing? Does she have young children? Does she work outside of home? How is her health? Since the early church didn't really have Sunday night or Wednesday services in the same manner we do, it's hard to imagine that Paul meant faithfulness to services.

    There is so much more to being faithful that just going to services.
     
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
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    Hi, Sleeves. We are glad to have you.

    Here is my thinking (and I am one who is in church everytime the doors are open, literally).

    I don't think one can take this passage and enforce a mandatory church attendance percentage for church leaders and layleaders and their familes.

    I looked up faithfulness, [πιστός (pistos)], on Strong's Concordance in the passage you cited and here is what it said.



    I think this goes much deeper than church attendance. Church attendance is vital, don't get me wrong. But faithfulness includes many, many things.

    What is she doing during the rest of the week? Perhaps there are faithful things that she is doing that you do not know of.

    Is her husband coming to church on Wednesday nights by himself? There are just a lot of "ifs" here that I do not know.

    But I am going to conclusively say that, for myself, I do not believe that "faithfulness in all things" means that this person HAS to be in church on Wednesday nights.
     
  4. sleeves77

    sleeves77
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    I was debating it with a friend of mine... wondered what others thought...

    thanks for the replies....
     
  5. abcgrad94

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    I think these verses are given to us as a general guideline.

    Any wife--not just a "deacon's" wife, is first to be faithful to God and to her home. In being faithful to her husband and her home, she is being faithful to God.

    Deacon wives and Pastor's wives are not called to meet the needs of the church, they are called to be helpers of their husbands. They should have godly character and their behavior should show the husband is the leader of the home. That's it. They are not called to be at the church every service, to chair every committee, to participate in every activity, sing in the choir, play the piano, or anything else that would take precedence over her family duties.
     
  6. Salty

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    Sleeves, Would love to have you introuce yourself in the welcome section.

    Salty
     
  7. annsni

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    I agree with the others - it doesn't mean faithfully being at church every time the doors are open. We have one pastor's wife who is at church twice a week and that's it. Many of the others are there more often but that is because we have jobs at church too. This pastor's wife has 6 children and is homeschooling all of them including 3 high schoolers with one graduating this year. I'd say she's very faithful. :)

    If I don't go on Wednesday evening, there's a good reason for it. It could just even be that I need a night at home so I don't go postal on everyone. There's a limit as to how much others can suck the life out of a woman before she goes crazy so I try to stop that before it happens and that sometimes means staying home when I could be at church (never for Sunday morning though since I have to work then). But I'm faithfully praying and still working through things in my head that need to be dealt with. My church family is ever on my mind. :)
     
  8. Aaron

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    Faithful in all things means faithful to her husband in all things.
     
  9. canadyjd

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    First, it doesn't say "their wives".. it says "women". The word "their" isn't there.

    The "men" of v.8-9 ... 1. of dignity 2. not double-tongued 3. or addicted to much wine 4. not fond of sorid gain 5. holding the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience...

    The "women" of v.11 1. dignified (compare to "men of dignity") 2. not malicious gossips (compare to "not double-tongued": the focus on controlling the tongue) 3. temperate (compare to not addicted to much wine) 4. faithful in all things (compare to "holding the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience)

    In context, it is referring to "women" who are servants of the church. They are held to the same standards as the men who are servants of the church.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  10. annsni

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    Actually, in the context, it's clearly speaking of the deacon's wives since it speaks of deacons before and after that verse, clarifying in the verse after that a deacon must be the husband of one wife.
     
  11. Jerome

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    Now be consistent: does it say "men" in vv.8,9?
     
  12. canadyjd

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    Actually, in the context, to be "clearly speaking of the deacon's wives" Paul would have used the words "their wives", which he does not.

    Paul says "women likewise".... speaking of women who serve as "servants".

    So, Paul gives the qualification of the "servants" of the church, beginning in v.8. He says "deacons likewise"..... meaning deacons will be held to the same kind of standards as the elders/overseers of 3v.1.

    In the middle of those qualifications, he says, "women likewise" (not "their wives"), meaning the women who are serving as deacons and then more qualifications.

    The main difference between the qualifications of elders/overseers and deacons/servants, is that "women" are mentioned in the qualification for deacons but not for the elders. That is because the overseer is a position of authority, and the "deacon" is not a position of authority.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  13. annsni

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    But Paul does not say "women likewise" but uses the word that can also be translated as "wife". In the context, it is clearly speaking of their wife.
     
  14. donnA

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    it really doesn't sound right to me that right in the middle of speaking about deacons Paul writes about women who are not associated with deacons(wives) and then goes right back to the deacons, before and after speaking about the deacons, why would he wander like that, it would make it confusing if he were.
     
  15. canadyjd

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    The word can be "wives" or "women". Since the possessive 'their" is not present, Paul is speaking,IMHO, of women in general. Since the context is qualifications for deacons, he is speaking the qualifications of women who are serving as deacons.

    Are the deacon's "wives" held to a higher standard than the overseer's wives? Why no mention of overseer's wives in the qualifications for overseer?

    In context, Paul is giving the qualifications for servants (deacons) of the church. He is not giving qualifications for the deacon's wives, since they aren't the ones serving as "deacons".

    It just doesn't make sense that way. Why hold deacon's wives to a higher standard than overseer's wives.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  16. annsni

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    Probably because a servant's wife is serving as well whereas an overseer's wife is not also overseeing.
     
  17. canadyjd

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    Since the servant's wife is serving the church, do we call her a "servant", just as we call her husband a "servant"?

    peace to you:praying:
     
  18. Jerome

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    Now it's "elders" in 3:1, eh?

    "Isn't there", indeed!
     
  19. canadyjd

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    You are correct. I consider "elders" as interchangable with "overseers", and used both when, in fact, only overseers is mentioned in this particular verse.

    Thanks for pointing that out.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  20. Jerome

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    That's right, exercising authority has absolutely nothing to do with deacons' role in the church.
    That's why "ruling their children and their own houses well" is required (v. 12) of would-be deacons, because it's so irrelevant to what they will do in the church.:thumbs:
     

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