Dealing with KJVO in my church

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by mandieanne, May 17, 2002.

  1. mandieanne

    mandieanne
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    Our church by doctrine is not KJVO but the couple who just took over the teaching of our young adult Sunday School class is, and this is causing a problem for me that I'm not completely sure how to deal with. Now, I have respect for those who choose to use only the KJV bible, even those who think its the "best" version, as long as they have respect for the fact that I have owned an NIV bible since I was 12 and, although I don't believe its the "only" bible, I use it most often. However, this couple, actually just the girl, is not at all respectful of that position. We had a talk about it one night when I first started attending this church. I pointed out that I have was most comfortable using my NIV bible because I was so familiar with it although I did often read other versions, mostly the KJV and NKJV. (actually, now that I think of it - its MY bible w/ all its notes and highlighting that have been there for ten years that I love using, I wouldn't even want a different copy of the NIV!), Her response to this was that most people only read the NIV because they think it is easier to understand and can't understand the KJV bible. Her attitude was very condesending, it made me feel like she was implying that I (who has a college education when she does not) was TOO STUPID to try to understand the KJV bible. During this talk she proceded to point out numerous "flaws" in "my" bible that were not in "hers" - she focused mostly on the Isaiah 14 issues in regard to Christ as the "morning star" (which I can now refute after doing some research). Her most rediculous arguement was this: she pulled out a parallel bible and showed me a passage in both versions, then pointed out "Look how much shorter the NIV is! Look at ALL THEY TOOK OUT!" Although I didn't argue with her on this, It was obvious to ME why the NIV passage was shorter: It was written in paragraph form while the KJV started over on each line! If the KJV hadn't so much white space they'd be nearly equal. OOOH I won't even go into her arguement about the bible being a "stand alone book" that shouldn't have footnotes (those nasty footnotes in my NIV that just aren't there in her KJV), although I know beyond a doubt there are SO many words in the KJV bible she would not be able to understand w/o looking in a dictionary. However, I refused to argue with her during this time, I listened to her babble on and on w/ respect for her position, and finally told her I needed to leave.

    I could deal w/ this person if it wasn't for the fact that she and her husband are now teaching our class, becaues I could chose just to walk away from an arguement about KJVO. But now that they are teaching they (or, I should say, she - I have never had a problem with this guy) have chosen to bring their KJVO views into the class - even though I don't believe that our church advocates KJVO (if it did I would probably be looking for another church!). It is humilating and hurtful to be asked to read a passage of scripture (when they KNOW darn well that I have a NIV bible) and then "corrected" in front of my peers because "MY KJV says it this way" (although the variation in every instance she has done this has been so MINOR it is just completely rediculous) especcially when this is said with an attitude of arrogance, judgementalism, and extreme pride. I can deal with people who want to read things in different versions but the ATTITUDE is what really hurts. If someone were to say, "I think it's interesting that the KJV uses this word that means this" or something similarly intelligent, I would be okay. But for someone to point out "MY KJV says it THIS way" (sharp, condescending emphesis added on the capitalized words!) is, to me, just plain rude. Most people in our class have a KJV (although I think perhaps only one of them is KJVO) so it is only a problem when my sister or I are asked to read. Neither of us are going to change the bible we've carried for the last 10 years to please our teacher, nor do I feel God would want or require this. But it is very hurtful and embarrasing to me to read scripture and hear "well, MY KJV says this..." Not to mention that I'm getting NOTHING out of our studies because I'm sitting there ready to cry in our class after being rubuked in it for reading things "wrong."

    I have posted about this on another board and got a lot of encouragement, along with the recommendation to use the guidelines in Matthew 18 to confront this issue. I just don't know how to address this issue with this girl, she is very stubborn and I don't expect that she is going to listen to what I have to say and have any respect for it (she doesn't even have respect for the fact that I can't stay out till 4 A.M. w/ her and other members of our class because I have to work for a living - when she stays home and relies on her husband) ::sigh:: I know that I'm dealing with more than just the KJVO issue here, its more me dealing with her attitude, but the KJV thing is giving me the most discouragement: I have already skipped Sunday school many times to avoid being (1) embarrased and hurt (2) drug into an arguement about versions that I don't want to take part in, and (3) possibly getting angry and saying hurtful things. I have searched my own heart and prayed about my attitude being right - I don't feel like I"m being prideful (I feel that I am very humble, and its not my pride that's being hurt, its the fact that I would like to be able to study God's word w/ my friends in my church without ridicule)and God is giving me a really level head about this and keeping me from getting angry. However, I feel so hurt over this. I have been a christian since I was 8, raised in church and educated in a christian school. I quit going to church about 3 years ago because of - you guessed it - hurtful Christians. I just returned to the church 5 months ago and am already being hurt, wishing I could go somewhere else. I can't stand this. So, if anyone can offer advice, especially how to take that first step of confronting her with this issue, please email me. My address is [email protected]. Thank you all for at least listening and God bless.

    Amanda
     
  2. Naomi

    Naomi
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    Amanda,
    I am so sorry for what you are going through. I understand how this situation can be very discouraging to you. Jesus told us so many times in the scriptures that it would not be an easy walk for us. I want you to know that I am Praying for you,and I want to take this opportunity to also encourage you. [​IMG]
    Amanda,
    What do you do when you enter into a dark room?
    Of course! You turn on the light. I want to encourage you to do just that! Turn on the "Light". You have read the Bible, you know who Jesus is, so don't give up. [​IMG] I know it is easier said than done, but it is the light that is within you that will shine brighter than anything else.
    Please do not allow the darkness ( whatever that darkness is in your own life ) to overcome the Light. People can only intimidate or discourage us when we allow them to do so.
    Remember what Jesus did? He kept moving forward. He did not allow people to hinder what needed to be done. Whatever God has for you, Amanda, keep pressing toward the goal. Jesus is our example!
    Our enemy always tries to put hindrances in our paths, but remember, Jesus said He has over-come the world. Keep your eyes upon Him, and allow that light to shine out from your life, and that light will dispel the darkness that wants to cause anger and depression within you. If this woman is in bondage to "It's my way or the highway" attitude, perhaps she needs the light more than you know. Perhaps you have been sent to minister freedom to her....I say perhaps, because I do not know. Seek God for what you need to do with all of this. He is faithful and true to answer your Prayers!! I guarantee it!
    God Bless
    Naomi
     
  3. DocCas

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    mandieanne, have you given any consideration to taking it up with Pastor Roe?
     
  4. KJV1611only

    KJV1611only
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    Amanda,

    I realize that there are two sides to every story..you have one.. and the person you have the problem with has one as well.

    If what you say is correct..we can't know because we are not there..then I do not agree with the attitude at all, that isn't a right way to go about things.

    Perhaps you should go up to her, ask if you could talk to her and simply tell her how she is making you feel. that is the only way you will get this resolved. if that doesn't work, then go to your pastor, that way he can have the two of you in his office and then you can work it out that way.

    I don't think coming to a board like this with so many differnt opinions and complaining about this person is right at all.

    Also using others as a reason why you are just now going back to church is unsat. You will never go to a church where someone won't hurt your feelings because Christians are human. You need to be in church because God said to be there.( hebrews 10:25) If others hurt your feelings go to them, tell them, or suck it up and deal with it.

    Hope you find the answer that you want.
    God Bless
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    As much as Dr. Cassidy will cringe, I agree with him [​IMG] ... Talk to your pastor.

    If someone in my church was teaching KJVOnly doctrine, then I would remove them from teaching. Note, I would not remove for teaching from the KJV; it is the KJVOnly doctrine that I would remove them for.

    I think you need to mention it to your pastor and go from there.
     
  6. TomVols

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    If there is an attitude problem on the part of a teacher of God's Word, that's something for the leadership of the church to deal with. But I'd try going to them personally first. Your Pastor should know about this. If he is KJVOnly, then this takes on another life of its own potentially.
     
  7. Chris Temple

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    I agree with Thomas. Take it to the pastor/elders. No teacher should be teaching doctrine which is opposed to that of the church, and from what you say the church is not KJVO. This is serious, and they should be corrected if possible, and if not, removed from teaching duties. KJV best is fine; KJVO is false teaching. This small trickle can become a flood which can split the church wide open.
     
  8. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee
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    KJ 1611 only is false doctrine?

    Books that deny the diety of Christ, abolish the blood atonement and remove many truths from the word of God is false doctrine!

    [Personal attacks deleted. Insults deleted]

    I agree that if the teachers are teaching contrary to what the church believes they shouldn't be there. They shouldn't try to change a dead church, rather they should leave and pray for God to send a man to start a real church!!!!!

    ERnie

    [ May 17, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  9. BrianT

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    Thank you Ernie, for that perfect example of what mandieanne is talking about. :(
     
  10. Naomi

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    Ernie,
    I do not want to assume anything here, so I will ask you directly...
    Are you implying that if a person reads any other translation, other then the KJV, they have not truly met the "God" of the bible? I am referring to NKJV, or NASB or NIV. Certainly not translations that would deny the Trinity.

    Naomi

    [ May 17, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  11. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    Ernie:

    Can you answer the question that NO KJVO has been able or willing to answer here on this board: Where was God's written word before 1611??
     
  12. GrannyGumbo

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    I'm just a tired old sinner saved by grace who longs to go "Home". I'm battle-weary & the older I get, it seems the stronger the old deceiver(satan) becomes. Yes, he is still up to his old garden-game..."Yea, hath God said...?" God is not the author of confusion, so tell me, please, how does a class or congregation read in unison, if not using the KJBible? ICor.1:10 says we are to speak the same thing. Would God inspire the "originals" & not preserve a perfect English Bible? Who first suggested that the KJBible is not the Word of God? Then, WHICH one is??? The best way to see if a stick is crooked is to place a straight one down beside it. How the Bible has changed thru' the years reminds me of a game my children used to play when they were little: One would whisper something in the next one's ear, then they would whisper what they thought they heard to the other one, etc, but when the last child repeated the original, it was totally amiss. "I praise God for KJOnly churches!"
     
  13. Chris Temple

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    Dear Granny:
    By the local church using any one agreed upon corporate version? (i.e., pew Bibles?)
     
  14. rsr

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    Good idea, Chris.

    Or, as we do, put the reading in the bulletin.
     
  15. BrianT

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    God is the same yesterday, today and forever. How would you answer your own question if you lived 10 years before 1611?

    No one is saying that the KJV is not the word of God. We are opposing the idea that ONLY the KJV is the word of God.

    The KJV is not the standard stick. Even the KJV must be places against the stick of the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.

    This is not how the Bible is transmitted to us. If this were, 1611 years after Christ would put the KJV 80% down the line, not at the beginning.

    God bless,
    Brian
     
  16. TomVols

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    We now have several posts that have NOTHING to do with this topic. This forum is not here to debate the merits of the KJV or any other translation. There is another thread you can do that. So cut it out. If you want to hash and rehash, do it in the version/translation forum. Any other posts not on topic will be deleted.

    TomVols
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  17. BrianT

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    Sorry Tom. [​IMG] I didn't mean to get off topic of this thread.

    But isn't *this* the version/translation forum? :confused:
     
  18. mandieanne

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    Thank you everyone for your replies. I am sorry that my post had to bring about arguements though - I don't think God would want the response to Christians pouring out their heart's burden to be personal attacks on anyone.

    In response to KJV1611only, I did not mean my post to be an attack on or a complaint about anyone. It was just an honest explanation of the way that I am feeling: hurt, disrespected, embarrased, and let down. I hope I didn't come across as angry because I am not. I wrote this after a vexing situation with this person, and I think that might have had some undue influence in my speech. If it was taken as anything but a hurtful response I am truely sorry.

    As far as going to my pastor (Thomas do you know Pastor Roe?) it may come down to that but I don't want to...I don't want anyone removed from their position in the church, don't want start fights or arguements over who's right or wrong, don't want to set up "sides" (I HATE THAT) - but I don't want to hold this hurt in my heart anymore either. And I know I am dealing with more than just a versions issue, I know that the root of the problem is this is a person I am just not comfortable being around (although I have been in the past, and wish I could be again - and I guess that makes it harder because this is a person that was becoming a friend and I think I also have some feelings of betrayal and discouragement) I guess I just don't know how to deal with that. It makes it very tough in our small church, especially because in our class we are all friends and do a lot together outside of church activities, and especially when it is someone everyone seems to look up to, some I think TOO much. So you see, the KJVO is only one part of the issue here. And I think my personality only makes it harder to confront this issue: I am a very happy-go-lucky person and I think I just have a very loving demeanor, so to admit even to myself that I have a problem with another person is next to impossible for me. So how does a person, especially a person like me, tell someone that "hey, your personality bothers me" or "The things you do hurt me?" I don't want anyone to change for me...I don't want this girl to change her views on anything, even the KJV. I just want her to accept me for who I am (hmmm the way God does?) I guess I just want to feel more respected, appreciated, and accepted as a friend with this person rather than a dumb young christian that she needs to guide to the truth (wow - didn't even realize I felt like that until I wrote it)

    ::sigh:: this has gotten long and very off topic - guess I"m venting again. All in all, I agree w/ what someone wrote me in an email today: God has put me in this situation for a reason. Already I have learned so much by studying the version issues (beforehand I had no knowledge to argue the point even if I wanted to), although I would rather be studying His word to grow and not to feel as though i need prove myself. And I wish that Christians could all just get along and quit judging each other on silly little doctrinal issues - I've seen people hurt over this my whole life and it makes me sad beyond belief.

    -Amanda

    James 1:2-3
    Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.

    Titus 3:9
    But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

    Romans 14:13
    Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.
     
  19. tyndale1946

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    I'm also KJVO and so is my church but that is us and you are you. I don't speak as the other KJVOs on here but my reason is mine and those of our belief the Primitive Baptist. Whatever version you read is your right as you worship God in your own manner. If its the NIV you are comfortable with, then that is the one you should read and study. The only one who should instruct you on how to worship God... Is God! The scriptures say study to show yourself approved unto God and as a Christian that is the only one you have to please. If you feel by your walk and talk you are pleasing God what else is needed. If somebody was bothering me about what I read I would take a stand and defend my right to read and study what I want. If you can't get this problem solved by scriptural means find another church where you have the freedom to worship God as you see fit... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  20. longshot

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    mandieanne writes: (she doesn't even have respect for the fact that I can't stay out till 4 A.M. w/ her and other members of our class because I have to work for a living - when she stays home and relies on her husband)

    Probably shoudn't, but cant help it. Gotta ask. Um, 4 A.M.? Thats one tough Sunday school class! :eek:
     

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