Dealing with transexuals

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Emily, Jan 3, 2004.

  1. Emily

    Emily
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    I am a sales representative of a very well known cell phone company.

    Just a moment ago, a "woman"
    came in my store to inquire about a cell phone and a rate plan. As soon as "she" spoke to me, I questioned whether or not she was a he. "She" wore a mini-skirt, and was shaped like a lady, right down to "her" hands..

    We talked about rate plans and all that, and when "she" left, he cleared it up for me that his name was Ron, but that he goes by Rhonda..

    I struggle as what to do with this information.

    I was just as kind to him as I am to any other clients, but my brain was not treating him as just any other sinner. I was repulsed..

    When he left, I went to pray for him, but then I stopped to think.."am I supposed to be praying for him"..

    Since in Romans it says that God gave them over to a depraved mind, does this now mean that we shouldnt be praying for God to convict them?


    anyone?
    :eek:
     
  2. Helen

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    Wow, Emily!

    Since I am not God (and we can all be thankful for that!), I have always gone by the idea of 'where there's life, there's hope.' Sure, pray for him. And pray that his influence will be stopped, as well... [​IMG]
     
  3. I Am Blessed 24

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    Treat Ron/Rhonda as you would any other sinner. If he/she is breathing, there is a chance for salvation.

    Pray for redemption. We were all as 'filthy rags' before we came to Jesus.

    [​IMG] §ue
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    Some sinners are so reprobate - sodomite, transexual, child pornographers - that they SHOULD repulse all of us.

    And remember, that this is the way ALL of our sins appear to a holy God!

    And like WE received God's grace, so we must pray for that same grace to touch the heart of the sinners we meet.

     
  5. Taufgesinnter

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    And don't forget that transsexualism, unlike homosexuality, has elements that have been clearly identified as brain-structure birth defects probably caused by opposite-sex hormonal influences in the womb involving the neural centers for gender self-identity. Transsexual behavior and self-awareness show up as early in innocence as the age of two or three. Transsexualism is also completely separate from homosexuality, in that gender identity and sexual preference are entirely separable (a male-to-female transsexual may be straight, preferring those of the same birth sex, or lesbian, preferring the opposite birth sex, and the equivalent may be true of a female-to-male transsexual). None of this, any more than the debate over a genetic basis for homosexuality that lacks any proof, or the proven genetic basis for many cases of alcoholism, absolves the person afflicted by this mental disease entirely of their actions, though surely it is a mitigating factor, but it does indicate just how much more difficult it must be for such a person to resist. Gender identity is one of the most obstinate aspects of brain-structure-based behavior to change with conscious effort (see The Boy Who Was Raised As a Girl for a good medical example).

    Also, don't forget that transvestism is almost completely distinct from transsexualism, since transvestites are nearly all straight men who have male gender identity but a fetish or paraphilia for dressing in women's clothes, and seek to look "natural" but only while dressing up. Transsexuals seek to look "natural" 100% of the time in every possible way. Transgenderists seek to look "natural" most or all of the time but do not wish the ultimate surgery--they are neither true transsexuals nor mere transvestites. Finally, drag queens are homosexuals, and thus not transvestites, and seek to exaggerate and parody female appearance rather than look natural, and may look any degree of masculine when not cross-dressing.

    All of this is a different subject than that of hermaphroditism and pseudohermaphroditism--the various intersex conditions. An intersexed individual may be born with the external reproductive organs of one sex, the internal reproductive organs of the other sex, and the genetic sex of either, and have the gender identity of either. These people are afflicted by clear physical birth defects. Some are born with the external reproductive organs of one sex and that gender identity, only to develop the external reproductive organs of the other sex at puberty, which turns out to match their internal organs and genetic sex, and must be a waking nightmare. Unlike the usual sexes XX and XY, some of these individuals are XXX, XXY, or X0. A few rare cases involve individuals who are XX-XY mosaic (some of their cells are XX and some are XY)--they are genetically both sexes. Some individuals, XX-XY mosaics or not, may have one testis and one ovary or two ovotestes.

    Some of the most beautiful models and actresses are believed to be afflicted with androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS), formerly known as testicular feminization syndrome: AIS victims usually have very curvy female bodies with large busts, waspy waists, long legs, very clear skin and thick hair, are quite tall and often have very beautiful faces. They are always raised as girls if the syndrome's effects are complete enough, since they have female external reproductive organs, and a partial female internal reproductive organ, but no male reproductive organs except testes in the abdominal position of ovaries whose testosterone the body is unable to metabolize due to a genetic defect. Whether natural (endogenous) or prescription (exogenous) hormones are administered, only female hormones are used by the bodies of those with this defect, not male, which are completely ignored. Most AIS victims are never told, and are placed on female hormone pills in adolescence after surgical castration that they are typically told was a medically necessary oophero-hysterectomy (this is done because of testicular cancer risk for undescended testes), when the syndrome is discovered while gynecologically investigating their cases of teenage amenorrhea. And there're lots of permutations on the continuum of physical defects involved in the development of male pseudohermaphrodites, female pseudohermaphrodites, and true hermaphrodites.

    This is a very complex subject. We should also keep in mind that the Bible addresses homosexuality and transvestism, but transsexualism was rare enough that it doesn't seem to have been addressed anywhere in Scripture, nor were cases of intersex.
     
  6. Johnv

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    Wow, I had this happen on a blind date once, and, well, let's just say there was no second date.

    Give it to God.

    You should indeed be as kind to him/her as anyone else. The fact that you showed kindness tell me yer mama brought you up right [​IMG] . As far as the repulsiveness, I would give it up to God. The reason is simple. It's simple human (and sinful) nature to asume that someone like that is sinning. Ya see, it makes us feel like less of a sinner if we can identify someone else as more of a sinner than us. Don't fall into that trap. We can't assume that a cross-dresser is guilty of any fornication. That's simply an assumption based on supposition. But clearly, a person who does so has some issues that we as laypersons aren't equipped to tackle, so the best thing to do is give it to God, and treat them with care and kindness.

    Sure. Pray for everyone, cross-dresser or not. In the very least, pray that God give that person peace of spirit, and guidance.

    Let God worry about it. We're all of a depraved mind in one sort or another, so we all need prayer. Just give it to God in prayer, and treat such a person with compassion and kindness. Chances are, I'm probably more of a sinner that the guy/girl that met with you, and I always appreciate it when people pray for me.
     
  7. Trotter

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    Pray for him/her/whatever. He/she is in need of Jesus Christ.

    has elements that have been clearly identified as brain-structure birth defects probably caused by opposite-sex hormonal influences in the womb involving the neural centers for gender self-identity

    Sorry, but last time I checked, sin was still sin. No matter what "reasons" people want to use to throw responsibility off of their shoulders.

    "Transsexuals" (no such animal, if you ask me), just like "homosexuals" (politically correct way of say sodomite/abomination), are sinners. All sin is a choice. No amount of smoke and mirrors throw out by the "scientific elite" can change that fact. Chromosones do not cause sin, people choose to sin. End of story.

    Tauf, this is not a personal thing with what you said. It is a personal thing about the way we look at sin. Everyone is a victim, not a sinner. In the eyes of God, we ALL are sinners. No amount of excuses will ever change that. Genetics might (MIGHT!) give a predisposition (no, I do not, nor will I ever believe that), but the choice to sin still lies in the lap of the one who participates.

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  8. BillyMac

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    I am utterly amazed at how open so many of you on these pages appear in your responses. I have posted regularly on secular forums for several years and whenever these topics surface all too often the Christian Right has posted to condemn these misfits within our society. Only the so-called liberals come to their aide and my heart is crushed by the lack of compassion shown by so many so called Christians.

    It would seem that such an event, Emily, would be fertile ground for witnessing Christ and him crusified for all sinners. Being a sower of good seed and planting that seed in fertile ground is what we Christians are to do, or so I was always taught.

    Do you think that him being "sent" to your station was a chance occurance??? If he had been an angel in disguise would you have been any more accepting??? Always look for opportunity to share the good news. Compassion for the gender confused goes a long way.
     
  9. Don

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    Remember, the passage says God gave them over to a reprobate mind, not us.

    Of course you should pray for them; for all you know, God hasn't given them over to a reprobate mind yet, and He's just waiting for someone like you to intervene on their behalf.

    As for the evidence that genetics "causes" transexualism and homosexuality--well, they're currently arguing whether obesity is a condition or a disease; frankly, my friend, it doesn't matter if you're obese, transexual, or you lick toads, because you choose to stick food in your mouth, wear the clothes of the opposite sex, or torture God's creatures.

    It's in my genetics to have sex with every woman I see. It's in my Christianity that I choose not to.
     
  10. donnA

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    A sinner is a sinner, one just like another. You treat one the same as another. Which is just as you want people to treat you. And of course you should pray for them, no one is a lost cause till their dead.
     
  11. Ben W

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    General William Booth who founded the Salvation Army once said that we should "Hate the Sin, Yet love the Sinner".

    I have always found that to be really helpful advice.
     
  12. Johnv

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    Amen to that!!! [​IMG]
     
  13. Mike McK

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    Not that it really makes a difference for this discussion but simply wearing the clothes of the opposite sex isn't "transexual". It's not even "transgendered". It's transvestism.

    One is a fetish. The other two are psychological disorders.

    I find it hard to condemn people when I know the sin I've had in my own life.

    Like others have pointed out, I try just to treat people respectfully. You can be respectful of person without condoning the sin.
     
  14. Travelsong

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    I don't think we can ever know how sin appears to God. With the exception of child molestation I believe the high degree of revulsion to sexual deviant behaviour can in large part be attributed to an "ick" factor. We reel in disgust when confronted with the idea of two men committing unnatural acts, but two female pop stars jamming their tongues down each other's throats on national television gets a free ride. God views all sexual sin (indeed all sin of any kind) with the same just anger.

    When dealing with or talking to anyone with glaring, grotesque sin I try as much as possible to suppress my gut "ick" reaction and treat these people as cadidates for the kingdom of God as deserving as I ever was.
     
  15. doug_mmm

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    Taufgesinnter

    Congratulations on your post. A voice of reason in a confused world. Your absolutely right, I watched a Televison program that examined the transexual experience and the program showed that the brain structure of transexuals were different in one area to the norm.

    Well spoken for pointing out the fact that transexuals are completely different from homosexuals. Homosexuals want sex with the same sex , transexuals want to be the other sex.

    The other aspect that the program revealed was that transexuals come to the realisation that they are different at a very early age.

    There is obviously some kind of chromosonal/hormonal problem here that is not touched upon by the Bible.

    Good on you for your courageous and compassionate explanation of this phenomena. I'm not a liberal by any means but I get annoyed with the hysteria and unwillingness to honestly appraise this issue. Its good to see a compassionate view of this without hysterical witchhunts.

    PS To emphasize I'm no liberal and homosexuality is wrong as its a choice, transexualism is , IMHO and available medical research a brain/chromosonal/hormonal problem. This cannot be the fault ( sin ? ) of the individual.
     
  16. Baptist Believer

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    Take it to God.

    Yep. That’s a very natural reaction and I would probably react exactly the same way. But we need to rely on the grace of God to help us love folks like that.

    I believe we should.

    We don’t know the situation or whether or not God is “through” with someone. Our calling is to be salt and light and express the love of Christ in world and action.

    May God bless you richly.
     

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