Death Penalty Poll - Con vs Lib

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by Salty, Sep 17, 2011.

?

My Views about the death penalty

  1. I am a "C" politically and Biblically - I support DP

    11 vote(s)
    44.0%
  2. I am a "L" politically and Biblically - I support DP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I am a "C" politically and Biblically - I don't support DP

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  4. I am a "L" politically and Biblically - I don't support DP

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  5. I am a "C" politically and "L" Biblically - I support DP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. I am a "L" politically and "C" Biblically - I support DP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. I am a "C" politically and "L" Biblically - I don't support DP

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. I am a "L" politically and "C" Biblically - I support DP

    1 vote(s)
    4.0%
  9. I don't fit into a category above - I support the DP

    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  10. I don't fit into a category above - I don't support the DP

    5 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
    There is quite a bit of discusisons on the death penalty. I thought I would come at this from a new side.
     
  2. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    I don't fit easily into political or theological cubbyholes, but I am pro death penalty, although I wouldn't cheer or applaud when someone is put to death.

    Those who are on death row have a trial by a jury of their peers, have had automatic appeals of their sentence, and have some time and means to have their conviction overturned because of the number of years it takes to go through the process. I am aware that Texas has possibly executed at least one "innocent" man, but that does not make the death penalty wrong. We need to improve our methods of investigation and the appeals process.

    I have much more concern over the lives of good, innocent, and honorable men who have fought for their country out of duty and patriotism, whom we have had to kill in battle because their country was using them to try to do something evil.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
    Just curious, where about do you fit onto the specterm?

    I listen to Stephanie Miller - and she is constantly talking about that "one man" executed who was innocent.

    Why is it that is the only person she talks about. Out of over 200 people - she can only find one that was Innocent.
    Now, mind you every life is important - but the way that Miller and other libs talk - they make look like over half of men executed are innocent
     
  4. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pragmatically, there are people who need killing but under the US Constitution it is cheaper to sentence them to 300 years consecutive than to hang them.

    The other part of the problem is our jails are to nice. Returning to chain gangs in place of providing exercise equipment would save lots of tax money.
     
  5. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,109
    Likes Received:
    219
    I wouldnt argue about that
     
  6. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    6,655
    Likes Received:
    189
    That's just it, I don't fit neatly along the "liberal" to "conservative" spectrums.

    I tend to be fiscally conservative, supporting the idea of a fairly flat tax except for the very lowest incomes where there should be a sliding scale down to 0%, with essentially no tax write-offs or social engineering in the tax code.

    I tend to be socially moderate, advocating separation of church and state, and promoting equal opportunity for all. Depending on the issue, I may come across as a hard-line conservative (for instance, 2nd Amendment) or a liberal (no financial support for religious institutions), but I hold what I believe to be internally-consistent views based on my Christian faith and pragmatism. Whenever I take those political tests that place one's views on a two-dimension grid, I generally fall nearly at the middle, depending on the questions. And it is not because I provide neutral answers, it is because the "extremes" balance each other out. I would get kicked out of both the Democratic and Republican parties and I have no interest in Libertarianism.

    Theologically, I have no issues with miracles, the resurrection, the idea that God could/might create everything in six "days", or the immediacy of God in our lives and culture and the need for all men and women to be redeemed by Christ. I believe the biblical text is accurate and true, but I don't try to make the Bible fit into our culture's categories, theological systems or worldview. The way it works out in my faith is that I hold to an internally-consistent theological viewpoint, although depending on who I'm interacting with, I am often accused of being a "fundamentalist" or a "liberal". I'm actually neither. Those categories don't work.
     
  7. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Looks like I'm the loner who put L politically and C in religious beliefs and believe in the death penalty.

    In fact, I believe it's under-used and that the age for the death penalty should be lowered to involved people under the age of 18. A murder is a murderer, that's it and that's that. I also believe rapists and repeat offenders such as thieves robbers should face the possibility of the death penalty and all child molesters and rapists should be given the death penalty automatically.
     
  8. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then we should hand a drunk driver who kills someone? Drunk driving is our national sport and a misdemeanor in most jurisdictions.
     
  9. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yes. Hand all drunk drivers. Hand them all! (not sure what it means but it sounds like a good call)
     
  10. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am pro-life on the issue.
     
  11. Alcott

    Alcott
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    7,455
    Likes Received:
    93
    Pro- who's life?
     
  12. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sidebar

    >Yes. Hand all drunk drivers.

    sidebar - Hand, hang, doesn't matter. in casual writing most people understand the intent behind typos. many vowels are omitted when texting but it doesn't matter. Legal contracts and sworn statements, a different matter, indeed. NEVER lie under oath. <G>
     
  13. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    I ticked the bottom box. I'm pretty socially and fiscally conservative but not a fundy on Biblical issues; I don't consider myself a liberal Biblically either although some here think I am. And I am anti-death penalty.
     
  14. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am with you, Matt.

    Do you remember the last hanging in England? A youth was hanged. A few years later the government sent a letter of apology to the family. They admitted the mistake and dropped capital punishment.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  15. jaigner

    jaigner
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Really?!?

    You do realize that most molesters were molested as children, right? These people have done horrible things, but they're still created in the image of God. That wasn't forfeited when they abused a child. Image-bearers should not be so flippantly and dismissively snuffed out.

    If we did a better job of rehabilitating those molested as children, there would be many fewer molesters. We should think about that, instead of just saying "hang them all."
     
  16. jaigner

    jaigner
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Seriously?!? This is really unbelievable. What about people who drive while sleepy. They are as dangerous as drunk drivers and are being negligent. What about people who are talking on their cell phone and kill people? Or who are putting on lipstick and kill people? Or who take an antihistamine and kill people? You want to start applying death penalty to everyone for every unfortunate bad decision?

    I normally appreciate your perspectives, even those I don't agree with, but I find this to be a ghastly and horrific undervaluing of human life.

    The reason abortion should be illegal is because of the intrinsic value of human life. Even if the person is an adult and is no longer completely helpless, that intrinsic value isn't compromised.
     
  17. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    jaigner, this is an issue that is very, very close to me and my views on it do not come lightly.
    I come from a family where my two brothers oldest brothers and I were all abused in that way. It's a horrid thing to go through.
    We all have our choices in life though. He chose to handle it by repeating the offenses. If there was anything positive, it was that as far as I know, all the victims were adults, although he did offer to babysit one of my children and even though I didn't know he turned into an offender, something I couldn't put my finger on said "don't allow it" and I didn't.
    A couple years later I found that he'd been arrested for molesting a string of women. In more than one state. That he's previously been arrested. I lived in the area and had heeded the warnings that there was a serial offender targeting mostly college girls and I followed the advice put out by police. My then-husband's restaurant was raided by police for an assault that happened behind it as the police considered the idea that someone in the restaurant may have been the perp and fled so easy because all he would have had to do was walk back into work.
    Then to find out it was my own brother?
    Yes. I know what he went through because we all went through it.
    He ended up indulging in fantasies and stated this as part of what triggered his decision to carry out what was in his head.
    He's my brother. I love him.
    He was sentenced to 15 years, I think.
    The 29th of this month, I stopped short in the store because I swore I saw him. I felt something, felt very disturbed about him because I knew that wasn't possible. I went home, did some research, and found out he was in the process of being released, max sentence up they let him out that day.
    Yep, there's a connection there. He's my brother. He also served his max sentence because he broke probation when they released him a few years ago the first time.
    And what am I thinking now? My daughters are doing college prep work. They are beautiful. And what if he comes around? Young college girls are his victim of choice.
    What about others?
    Sex offenders, and I don't care what "statistics" say, repeat as long as they have a victim. I know from experience, I know from working in the prison ministry, I know because there's not a single person I've known or have research that hasn't offended again, whether it was a month later or years and years later.
    Especially those that do it in response to their own abuse. They are mentally ill in a way that does not permit them the ability to live in public without being a danger and laws meant to keep others safe from them don't permit them to live a normal life and be able to find a decent place to live AWAY FROM OTHERS who will draw them back and usually if they do get jobs, the people hiring them also hire other offenders and so...they're surrounding with people who trigger them.

    He knows what it is like to be abused. Instead of taking that and using it to help others who have been abused, he chose to make others feel the same way. His sentence was 15 years. How long are the sentences of his past and future victims? A lifetime. That didn't have to happen.

    So yes. I believe in the death penalty for those types of offenders and it's not an easy conclusion. It's a painful one. But I'd rather see my brother in the arms of Jesus and healed from what he went through and not have to live through what he will feel when he loses control and does it again. So there won't be other victims, so those that he already did this too won't have to live in fear of him.

    There's another situation I can't speak of in much detail publicly, but another tough one, trying to turn around a situation where a child was both the victim of abuse over years in his early childhood and now has his own victim he attempted to repeat the abuse on. Time to break the cycle and I pray, so much, that it will be turned around and that everyone involved will be able to help him turn that around and he can heal and as we work with his victim too, that she can come to terms with it and not react to abuse the same way.

    It's also a lot of my reason for believing the same of alcoholics. They have an addiction that they chose. Alcohol and drugs played a part in a lot of the abuse talked about above. It destroys the lives of those around them apart from endangering the lives of innocent people on the road. Drunk drivers aren't just driving drunk, they're raising families drunk and traumatizing people all around them. It's a lifestyle that affects more than just driving. By the time they get caught in that, they've probably already hurt and traumatized a number of people in a number of ways.

    And many I have known feel pretty guilty about it. They know they're ruining others that love them, they know they're endangering others. When someone is that dangerous to themselves and others, same as I stated above, should they really be with the general population?

    Should the innocent and those that are victims of these people have to pay out of their own pockets for the care and keep of them?

    Of course there should be common sense. Surrounding circumstances taken into account. I can't see a young person who got drunk for the first time getting the death penalty, even if that person killed someone else in the car, despite the fact that he did take another life and it was his/her fault.

    But these people get jailed and sit there being useless to the outside world and costing money. They're typically not out there doing anything to compensate their victims, that comes from victim's compensation funds and where does THAT money come from? They're not out there being put to work anymore digging or clearing fields and doing something constructive, they're sitting in secured jails being fed and given medical care and learning how to get away with it next time from repeat offenders they're in jail with.

    As long as that's the way these crimes are handled, then yes, I will continue to believe the death penalty is the most logical and compassionate option.
     
  18. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is funny how the left likes to claim "pro-life" on the issue of convicted criminals but stay away from that phrase when it comes to innocent babies killed pre-birth.
     
  19. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    It's also funny how the right like to accuse people like me of being pro-abortion and anti-death penalty just because I lean left on most political issues and on this board, people consider me all liberal because I listen to that crazy modern praise and worship music, lift hands, dance, and am not KJVO.

    Pretty funny that people like to assume what my moral standards are based on those things and it doesn't matter that according to the Scriptures, I am about as conservative in my doctrinal beliefs as they come.

    Actually, it's not funny at all when people assert those things. Funny peculiar maybe, but that's about it. Other than that it's just wrong.
     
  20. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    And that has what to do with what I said?
     

Share This Page

Loading...