Delaware candidate Christine O'Donnell questions church and state separation

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Crabtownboy, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
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    This should cost her every Baptist vote in the state....however it will not do so because far too many Baptist do not know Baptist history nor the full wording and history of the First Amendment to the Constitution. I would not vote for any candidate, regardless of party, who showed such ignorance of the Constitution.

     
  2. Salty

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    O'Donnell is absolutely right. "Separation of church and state" is NOT in the Constitution. SCS was a decision by the SCOTUS, based on a letter written by Thomas Jefferson.

    Yes, we have a good first amendment. I do want the government to stay out the business of the church.

    However, it has went to the extremes - not allowing a student to pray to at a football game or graduation - IS NOT the intent of the first amendment.

    When I first heard the story, I also thought O'Donnell was a bit nuts, Until I heard the entire discussion in CONTEXT!
     
  3. targus

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    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

    Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-s...out-separation-church-and-state#ixzz12ytP40cn

    There is no seperation of Church and State.

    The First Amendment says that Congress can't establish a religion and that they can't prohibit the free expression of religion.

    Of course the State prohibits the free expression of religion every day.

    BTW - it's convenient that the OP article left out the fact that O'Donnell said "the phrase seperation of Church and State" is not there.

    Big difference between the what she actually said and what they are reporting.
     
    #3 targus, Oct 21, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2010
  4. Crabtownboy

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    Current day Baptists need to read and learn of their own history.

    Our forefathers knew first hand of the dangers of not having the separation of church and state. When either the church or the state has power over the other very bad things have happened throughout history. Just look at Iran and other Islamic countries. Look at medieval Europe. Look at our own pre-revolutionary history when we had state churches and when the church and state were intertwined.
     
  5. targus

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    Having been shown that you are wrong on the Constitution you have decided to try to shift the emphasis to Baptist history.

    Why don't you address the responses that you already received?
     
  6. Crabtownboy

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    Actually I believe I am right on the Constitution as that was the clear intent of those Baptist in the past. Also the courts in case after case have agreed that was and was exactly what was meant by those folk and by that portion of the First Amendment.

    The concept of the separation of church and state is clearly shown in the Constitution and in the writings and position statements of those who fought so hard for what became the First Amendment of the Constitution.

    To say otherwise is to take a very liberal stance and to want activists judges to overturn clear precedence.

     
  7. Luke2427

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    Well, you are mistaken that she was wrong about separation of church and state being in the constitution. It is not. That congress shall make no law establishing a religion is not separation of church and state.

    But she does seem to be dumb as a hammer. She could not name a single court decision that she disagreed with. If you are going to run for office you need to know these things.

    We Republicans have got to stop nominating dumb people to run for office just because they are pretty and conservative. That is doing far more harm than good, I think.
     
  8. targus

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    So if the Baptists are responsible for the First Amendment - we're they guilty of violating the very same concept of the seperation of Church and State by interjecting their beliefs into law?

    Suddenly Crabby is good with no seperation of Church and State - while arguing for it at the same time.
     
  9. Crabtownboy

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    Both parties would do well to follow your advice. Actually she did not seem to know that the First Amendment said anything about religion.

    I made the reply bold. But that alone shows great ignorance of the Constitution.

    Of course her handlers tried to smooth it out by saying she meant the phrase or words "church and state" are not in the amendment ... and that is true. But the concept is certainly there and can be seen if she and others would read the writings of those supporting the amendment.

    The Tea Party candidate seems even more out of touch. He said:

    In fact, her ignorance of the Constitution is not just limited to the First Amendment.



    I really do not care which party a candidate belongs to, I do not want any person displaying such ignorance elected.
     
  10. TomVols

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    She's technically right. Separation of church and state isn't in the Constitution, but in the writings of Thomas Jefferson. What is in the constitution is that Congress shall not abridge the free exercise of religion, regardless of in the public or private sector, the church, the state...wherever. It's the last few words that tend to make people uneasy, but as a Baptist I am committed to religious tolerance and freedom so I must agree.
     
  11. targus

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    Would that include Obama and his "fifty-seven States"?
     
  12. KenH

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    Why did Ms. O'Donnell not know that the no establishment clause is part of the 1st amendment? I have watched the incident and when she said "That's in the 1st amendment" she was asking a question, not making a statement.
     
    #12 KenH, Oct 21, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  13. targus

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    She was questioning whether the phrase "seperation of church and state" was in the 1st amandement.

    It's not.
     
  14. Crabtownboy

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    No, she was showing her ignorance that the First Amendment talked about religion and the state. She was showing her ignorance just as she did when ask about other amendments. It was a question, not a statement.

     
  15. targus

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    Did you watch?

    I did.

    And what about my 57 State Obama question?
     
  16. Crabtownboy

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    It was a question ............

    Notice the quotes all have ? ... it was a question not a statement as you are trying to say ... as did her handlers.
     
  17. targus

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    Your quotes mean nothing without context.

    Did you watch?

    I did.

    And why don't you answer my 57 State Obama question?
     
  18. Crabtownboy

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    Sources are given, i.e. Internet links so you can read the context.

    Did I watch?

    What time do you think it was here when the debate was televised?

    Do you believe European TV carries US political debates?

    You are raising red herrings my friend. Read the articles and others you can easily find ... it was a question asked from ignorance.

    You 57 States is simply off topic and an attempt to derail the thread since you can see how totally wrong you are.
     
  19. carpro

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    Such a calm , reasoned, and factual approach will have no affect on CTB at all.

    He's wrong. Everyone here knows it. He will never admit it.
     
  20. targus

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    In case you missed it the first three times... I watched it.

    I don't need to read your quotes.

    I know the context because I watched it.

    Have you never asked a question as a way of making a point?

    She asked if it is in the Constitution - meaning the phrase seperation of church and state.

    I find it funny that because you have found some opinion pieces with quotation marks you believe that you know more about it than someone who watched.

    No, it is in direct response to a statement that you made.

    Does this statement equally apply to Obama who said that there are fifty-seven States?
     

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