"Depart from me...I never knew you"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Helen, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. Helen

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    This verse from Matthew 7:23 is getting bandied about in a couple of threads in regard to things other than what it appears to have been related to (and that's the nicest way I know how to put it!).

    In Matthew 7:15-20 -- the verses immediately preceding this section -- Jesus is warning about false teachers and the fruit that comes from their teachings. As He says, "every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

    IMMEDIATELY after this He explains a little more, saying, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

    These people He says that to, who are they? They are the false teachers of the previous passage. They could easily include Roman Catholic priests, Mormon priests, JW leaders, and a reasonable number of televangelists and other cult-type figures. By their fruits you will know them.

    But the person who simply and truly believes in Jesus Christ and trusts HIM as Savior is not in that group. For of the person who belongs to Christ, it is said that nothing can separate him from the love of Christ.

    It has been stated that if you die with unconfessed sin, you will go to hell. This is not only what the Roman Catholics teach (except they most substitute Purgatory, but this is also why they have last rites), but this is a denial of the fact that Christ died once for all sin. In the Old Testament there are sacrifices not only for known and confessed sins, but for unknown and unintentional sins. Jesus was one sin offering for all for all time. That very much includes unconfessed and unknown sins.

    We cannot possibly know every time we offend God. I think we who are Christians would prefer to die of embarrassment if we did know! But His love has covered over all of it. It is not to us that Jesus will say "Depart from me, I never knew you!" A lot of us have differences among each other here, but I think the vast majority of those who post here truly love the Lord and are born again in Him. And the Holy Spirit is leading each of us to become more and more like our Lord, which is what He promised us would happen.

    I am begging those of you here who seem so quick to pass judgment on others, and some who are using the "depart from me" passage as a threat, to stop judging others' eternal destiny. God knows the heart, in all situations.

    From what I can see, the majority of those here on Baptist Board are struggling to know the Lord and His Word better and to be closer to our Lord in their lives. So let us encourage one another 'while it is called Today.'
     
  2. gb93433

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    I agree with you. I truly believe I have seen those Jesus talked about as leaders in churches too. They are religious folks and appear as disciples just as Judas did but they have no relationship with the living God through Jesus Christ. The real test is not how many good things they do, or what they know, but whom they know.
     
  3. standingfirminChrist

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    This could also be referring to the false teachers within the christian church. Was not Judas one of the disciples?

    It could be referring to ones who try to justify sin within the christian church as well as the other churches previously mentioned.
     
  4. Brice

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    [​IMG] You are very wise Helen. [​IMG]
     
  5. Soulman

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    Well done Helen!!

    Soulman
     
  6. partialrapture

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    1John 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
    4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

    Notice the language used, "know him"
    is it possible for believers not to know thier Lord? We then would need to divide the different definitions of the word "know" because in one sense we can never know him...

    Job 36:26 Behold, God is great, and we know him not, neither can the number of his years be searched out.

    This would be knowing all, the secrete things of God. There is a special fellowship we can have with God and the scriptures call it knowing Him...

    Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

    "That I may know Him" I bring all this up so that we dont immediatly exclude ourselves from being included in the warning of Matthew 7

    also look at the use of know here...

    Genisis 4:1 ¶ And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

    Matthew 1:24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
    25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

    there is an intimacy invovled with this use of the word know

    May God bless his word
     
  7. Helen

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    Partialrapture, yes, 'know' implies an intimate relationship. Those who are His have that as they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9). That's pretty intimate!

    Nor is the warning in Matthew 7 to the average believer, but to the teachers who are teaching falsely.

    For us, as believers, we WILL produce the fruits of the Spirit, for God WILL finish the good work that He has begun in us, which is to change us to become conformed to the likeness of Christ Himself.

    So the fruits that are being spoken of by Jesus are not the fruits of a personal life, but of false teachings.
     
  8. LadyEagle

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    "Fruits" are something you are and something you do.

    Some people have a "head" knowledge but not a "heart" knowledge, meaning they "know" or believe Jesus lived, but do not "know" Him as personal Lord and Savior.

    [​IMG]

    [ January 08, 2006, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: LadyEagle ]
     
  9. standingfirminChrist

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    Amen, LadyEagle!

    Many cannot lay down their worldly treasures to follow Christ and thereby do not truly know Him, nor are they known of Him.
     
  10. Linda64

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    Amen LadyEagle--

    I was married to one of those who had a "head" knowledge-professing Christ all the while drinking alcohol until he finally killed himself with it. There are many sitting in churches with a "false" hope of salvation. Sad.
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

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    The 'tree that brings forth evil fruit' is not necessarily the leaders of a flock only, but also people sitting in the pews of some of the most godly churches out there. Just because someone warms the pews each time the doors are open and never misses a service, does not mean that person is living the life the Word of God demands.
     
  12. partialrapture

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  13. standingfirminChrist

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    Any believer can teach falsely, PartialRapture. Let me give you an example.

    When I first got saved, I was under the impression (as many are today), that Jesus turned the water in the pots into a fermented wine. And I taught this.

    As I studied to go into the ministry, the Spirit revealed to me that this was not the case at all. The wine that Jesus produced was not fermented, nor was the wine in the waterpots at any time whatsoever.

    Let me explain, before you say I am a false teacher in this doctine. The men had already 'well drunk', so if there was alcoholic wine at the wedding feast, wouldn't he be contributing to their drunkenness if it were a fermented wine?

    Also, the wine would not have been in the jars as they were for purification purposes. There was nothing but water in them. The water was turned into wine sometime after the servants drew out the water and bare to the governor of the feast. He told them to fill the water pots with water, then told them to draw out and bare to the governor. The Bible says they governor did not know where the wine came from, but the servants who drew the water knew. They drew water from those jars, not wine. It was made wine after the drawing.
     
  14. Helen

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    I don't believe it! You guys hijacked THIS one, too!
     
  15. Helen

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    Let me repeat the last part of my opening post and see if you folk can't get off your rants and pay attention to THAT part:

    We cannot possibly know every time we offend God. I think we who are Christians would prefer to die of embarrassment if we did know! But His love has covered over all of it. It is not to us that Jesus will say "Depart from me, I never knew you!" A lot of us have differences among each other here, but I think the vast majority of those who post here truly love the Lord and are born again in Him. And the Holy Spirit is leading each of us to become more and more like our Lord, which is what He promised us would happen.

    I am begging those of you here who seem so quick to pass judgment on others, and some who are using the "depart from me" passage as a threat, to stop judging others' eternal destiny. God knows the heart, in all situations.

    From what I can see, the majority of those here on Baptist Board are struggling to know the Lord and His Word better and to be closer to our Lord in their lives. So let us encourage one another 'while it is called Today.'

    --------

    That word 'encourage' -- do you suppose we could concentrate on that one for awhile?

    Please?
     
  16. standingfirminChrist

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    We are told to encourage. But, we cannot encourage sin, nor condone it. We are told to judge righteously. How do we judge righteously, by the Word of God which liveth and abideth forever. What was sin 2000 years ago, is still sin today.
     
  17. Helen

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    It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict of sin. Don't try to supplant Him, please.

    We are told to use our gifts to build up the body of Christ.

    It is one thing to state something is a sin. State it and be done with it. Your warning is complete. Let the Holy Spirit finish the work if what you have warned as being sin is, indeed, sin.

    Then turn, and encourage those who are new in the faith, or those who are hurting. There are plenty of them to go around!
     
  18. partialrapture

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    Dear Helen, I agree with your admonishment to encourage and exhort
    Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

    But doctrine and truth are important to encourage one and motivate one
    And if the Lord calls to be light what does light do?... it exposes...

    Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE them.
    12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
    13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

    This does not rule out the encouraging and comforting role of a christian at all.

    It is the spirit of the age to be bothered by others when they tell sombody they are wrong... "your being negative" "no judging"

    no judging has its place but to verbally rebuke sin is not it, the people of Sodom did the same thing to Lot...

    Genesis 19:7 And said(Lot), I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
    Genesis 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a JUDGE:

    they accused him of judging...

    May God give mercy
     
  19. Martin

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    Good post Helen. [​IMG]

    Just some quick comments.

    You said:
    ==Yes it is a popular, often preached, but highly unBiblical idea. The Bible teaches that:

    "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified" Heb 10:14 (see Heb 10:10-14).

    When a person is born again all of thier sins have been paid for in the cross of Christ. That person is now "perfect forever" (KJV) in the eyes of God. Nothing they do, no sin they could commit, can change that. Why not? Because they are "perfect forever" or "for all time" via the cross of Christ.

    Now this certainly does not give Christians a permit to sin. The Bible makes it clear that those of us who are saved have died to sin and can live in it no longer (Rom 6:12-23, 1Jn 3:9-10). However when a believer does sin that sin has already been dealt with in the cross. That sin does not "undo" the finished work of the cross. That person is, after all, perfect forever through the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. It is a finished deal. Now they must confess that sin and repent for fellowship purposes (1Jn 1:9, Ps 32:5, Pr 28:13). However that person's position before God is fixed forever...perfect. Nothing can cause us to be lost, be seperated from Christ, or perish after we have been born again (Jn 6:37-40, 10:27-30, Rom 8:28-39).

    ____________________________________________


    ==That is very true. Some professing Christians "think" they don't sin. Yet if you watch them for any length of time you can usually see some sort of sin (gossip, abuse of food, attitude of a Pharisee, etc). Sadly these people are sometimes the first to point out sin in someone else's life. Jesus tells us, and them, that we should carefully examine ourselves before we attempt to play judge (and jury sometimes) in other people's lives (Matt 7:1-5). Does this mean we can't say to someone, "Buddy you are in sin"? No it does not mean we can't. In fact Jesus said we should (Matt 18:15-17). However the point is that we should examine ourselves first and only correct our brother/sister in love. It is God who is their judge and jury, not us (1Cor 4:5). We are to point out to them what God has said about their behavior. If they don't listen we are to follow the Biblical instructions (Matt 18:15-17). If they do listen we are to follow the Biblical instructions and help them (Gal 6:1).

    ___________________________________________

    ==If someone is judgmental they are not going to listen to your advice (no matter how hard you try). After all they don't listen to the Scriptures when the Scriptures speak of love, encouragement, forgiveness, and gentleness.

    In Christ,
    Martin. [​IMG]
     
  20. chavah

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    Amen Helen! This was something that I have been working on myself. I needed to read this today though! We do get caught up in our own self righteousness and forget that we are not the Holy Spirit. [​IMG]
     

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