Deut. 6 & Homeschooling

Discussion in 'Homeschooling Forum' started by Pastor David, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Pastor David

    Pastor David
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    "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one! You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. As you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates." - Deut. 6:4-9

    Does this passage speak to you as a homeschooler? In what way?
     
  2. abcgrad94

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    It speaks to me as a parent, not as a homeschooler. As a parent, I have a responsibility to teach my children at every opportunity, not just during "school hours" or on Sundays at church.

    I know some people who take this passage out of context as an argument to say God expects everyone to homeschool, but I don't believe that is what the passage is saying. I think it means that everything we do, all day, should be a teaching/learning opportunity because little eyes are watching. It should be part of our daily life, just like eating or sleeping or sitting down. We should make the most of every opportunity.
     
  3. michael-acts17:11

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    Children who are in the humanistic governmental educational system are being trained in anti-Christian ideology 8hrs of every day. How many hours does it take of Christian parental intervention to counteract this indoctrination? I've seen too many public schooled Christian children turn away from Christ to take that risk with my own children. They are homeschooled & Christ-centered without all of the humanistic brain-washing. I am sending my 17yr old to college next year and am completely confident that her faith will stand against anything the professorial priests of the humanistic god of man-worship can throw at her.
     
  4. mont974x4

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    I agree with your understanding this.

    However, at one time or another all of my sons have been homeschooled. My bride and I are really wanting to get back to that but so far God has not provided the resources. The more we learn about our public schools the more urgent we are about getting this done.
     
  5. michael-acts17:11

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    What resources are you in need of to get back into homeschooling?
     
  6. mont974x4

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    I was thinking mainly of financial resources. However since my post yesterday I have gone over our taxes and budget and it does not look like we are in that bad of shape. Praise God! My bride and I just need time to discuss which materials we want to use and agree to a plan. We have been less than impressed with the LifePac material. Bob Jones has a few options and they can track your kids progress so a regular diploma is available. Of course, there are other options too.

    We have an active homeschool association in our area and the boys and I help with Special Olympics so extra curricular/social opportunities are not an issue.
     
  7. agedman

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    You assume that children who turn away from Christ is a problem of being "public schooled."

    It is not.

    I have witnessed the "mighty army of God" that was supposed to be produced in the "christian/home school of the 1960 - 2011 be nothing but failures and fizzles.

    Where are the hundreds of thousands that are from that educational background who supposed to reform the world and especially save the US?

    The problem has NEVER been the school - else the christian church would not have thrived in communist countries.

    The problem is what every teacher knows.

    The strong home and the child will thrive even in a weak school education environment.

    A weak home, the child of a strong school will thrive until about third grade, when the weak home speaks so loudly and inconsistently that unless the child develops a personal self awareness - they will fail.

    It is the HOME!

    And anyone who wants to harp about the "ungodly educational system" as guilty for their own failures is not only mistaken, but is spouting untruth.
     
  8. sunniemom

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    False teachers

    I don't necessarily view Deut. 6 as the 'Homeschool Commandment', but I do see public schooling as a violation of Psalm 1:1, 1 Cor. 15:33, Prov. 13:20... I also have a problem with placing children under false teachers, something we would never tolerate in church, but somehow is acceptable in an academic setting- as if knowledge can be compartmentalized.
     
  9. agedman

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    None of your verses are a statement against public schools.

    I don't know where you live, but in Texas we have local school board elected by the local folks. Certainly, they are responsible to the Texas Education Assoc., but that board is appointed by the elected officials, too.

    If you want change, you are encouraged to work for that change through the electorate.

    To claim the public school is somehow at fault, ungodly, ... is a statement of the lack of the believer's involvement in holding the system accountable.

    Because it is a "public system," and because we are under the charge to spread the scriptural truth to all nations, why aren't the believers flocking into the system as teachers, administrators, tutors, helpers...

    At least by being involved a person can separate fact from part truths.

    Besides, what better way to be a missionary?
     
  10. michael-acts17:11

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    God expects His people to teach His ways to our children; not to have them educated in the ways of the world in a system that is anti-Christian.
     
  11. agedman

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    First, let me clearly state that I am NOT opposed to home schooling. I support the home school movement. I have a problem with the home school folks being critical of a system of education they are not involved in but should be. After all, their money is supporting that system.

    So, now to address your expectations.

    OF COURSE God expects His people to teach His ways to our children. Teaching His ways is the teaching of discernment.

    However, to make sure you do not misunderstand there is not a "Christian phonics" and a "Christian math." There is not a "Christian ____" as opposed to an "ungodly ______" in the educational realm.

    I recall a pastor blustering about and proclaiming such nonsense about the "Christian curriculum" the "Christian School" was going to use.

    Just to be sure I understood him, I asked him to demonstrate what sound a Christian "T" makes, or could he use the chalk board to show the difference in the method of adding 2+2 as a Christian in comparison what the ungodly public school method would teach.

    Because Saul (Paul) was freeborn and from a well to do educated family, he was educated in what is considered the greatest school system including the university level of his day, but according some it would seem he should have been home schooled?

    The church is a mix of unbelievers and believers, so one shouldn't attend?

    What is missing in the public system is highly involved parents!

    What right does one have to call the public school system ungodly when it is up to that person? If one doesn't like the system then vote for change, be active in the community of voters, work to make the views acceptable to those around you and then work with those around you to make the group larger. Become your own political pack. Just beware of the wolves in sheep clothing.

    I understand the thinking that the parent should "protect" their children. I also agree that there are those who are false teachers in every setting. The apostles warned of such as being in the church! Danger lurks everywhere.

    However, consider this.

    Who tempts a youth to take their first cigarette? a teacher or the child's peer
    Who tempts a child to take their first swig of an intoxicant? a teacher or the child's peer

    And the list could go on. But the final answer is always a friend/peer.

    The problem has never been the ungodly public school.

    The problem is parental.

    Always, the lack of discernment that parents haven't taught their children conditions the child to make poor and even ungodly decisions.

    Daniel and his friends where physically abused, and then forced into an educational system that was not at all godly. But, apparently their parents (before the war) had spent time teaching discernment. The very first incidents the young lads faced was one of discernment. Throughout his life, Daniel practiced discernment.

    Learning to live by PRINCIPLE rather than rules.
    Learning to live with the ungodly with purpose as a missionary (Paul uses the term foreigners).

    These are areas that when taught to the children will carry them through all manner of evil situations they will have to face, regardless of age.

    That is what God expects parents to teach. Discernment.

    Helping the child come to terms of discerning the spirits.

    Discerning what their responsibilities as a child of God.

    Discerning friendships and acquaintances.

    Discerning how to give the answer to the teacher that reflects the teacher's view, yet discerning when and being willing to further state their own personal view or the view of God.

    Discerning how to approach authorities.

    Discerning what is right from what is best. (That is a tough one!)

    That is what God expects parents to teach, and from what I have seen, parents have failed.
     
    #11 agedman, Jan 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2012
  12. abcgrad94

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    There may not be a "Christian Phonics" or "Christian math" but there are certainly some ungodly things being taught in the public schools. I was taught all kinds of un-bibical ideas in science, sociology, art, literature, etc. These were taught with a humanistic approach that left God out.

    As far as getting involved, that's a great idea and if it works for you, good. But please remember that not all areas of the country are willing to allow change in their public schools. Christian parents are highly outnumbered and many school officials are corrupt. The school teachers belong to an ungodly union that pushes an ungodly agenda. One can spend all their time and resources fighting it, when that time could be better spent just homeschooling.

    As far as getting involved because our tax dollars support it, well, my tax dollars support lots of things I don't like, such as abortion, gambling, Planned Parenthood and the like. While I agree with you that we should be involved in influencing our communities for good, we must remember that our world will continue to wax worse and worse. Fighting it will only slow that process down a bit. I'd rather pour my time and energy into raising my kids right than running around fighting what will be a losing battle politically.
     
  13. agedman

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    Blessing upon any of the educational efforts you can give your children.

    I think it is wonderful that although you were exposed to all the "ungodly things" you are so committed as a believer.

    Perhaps, you are an example of what I was attempting to remind parents they must set as an educational priority.

    The basic truth that I was setting out is that the educational system is not a new evil, and yes it is different in various areas of the country. But, the final responsibility is for parents to raise the children and the educational priority should be that they learn and practice discernment.

    I am old and have seen many children whose parents taught them discernment who also could not be part of a home school, or private school, yet they are successful and thrive as Christian adults.

    As you state the world is "getting worse and worse," and it seems to be far more important that our children are taught discernment.

    I wanted to encourage all parents, to be involved with appropriate purpose in the public educational systems - even the home schooling ones.

    Certainly the public school by in large is run by heathens. And just as mission work is done in the most ungodly countries, there are Godly and purposed folks that work within the system in hope of spreading the Gospel.

    They need encouragement, prayer, and accountability just as any foreign missionary.

    The home school and Christian school can provide a huge benefit of prayer and even to seek out and help support the mission work done by those "home missionary" teachers who aren't there to earn a check and be part of a union system.
     
  14. abcgrad94

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    Well said, agedman. I would add that while it is primarily the parents' job to raise their children right, we ALL can have a godly influence, whether it's Sunday School teachers, sports coaches, piano teachers, neighbors, etc. Sometimes children will listen to other adults better than their own parents, and it's good if we can help enforce good values wherever and whenever we can.
     
  15. michael-acts17:11

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    agedman, I attended government schools when I was young & my wife taught in them for over ten years. We don't have to be continually involved in a failing system in order to understand its failures. The primary point that you seem to be missing is that our government school system is not simply teaching the three "R's". They are actively promoting wicked lifestyles & attacking our Christian heritage. If you truly believe we are disagreeing over how to write 2+2, then I would suggest that you do a lot more research before jumping into any discussion on schooling options.
     
  16. agedman

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    You assume too much in thinking that I do not know from education and experience what I have posted.

    I used the illustration to show how some spout their ignorance with the approval of the non-thinking. That as a believer, we are to discern what is acceptable, good (used as a noun), perfect.

    My posting has continually been to encourage the home school folks to focus on an extremely necessary area that from what I have witnessed is lacking. If you are actively teaching discernment and in support of home mission works to the public sector, I have no problem.

    I also have no problem with the home school desiring to protect the innocence by limiting exposure and influence of those who oppose God.

    I personally don't think, if that is the only reason, it is a valid reason to have a home school. The home school must have far greater emphasis and accountability that truly makes it unreproachable.


    However, beginning in the far distant past, there has been the "holy huddle" mentality (Essenes) and great pronouncements of how "ungodly" the public system is without recognition that it has always been that way. It isn't getting worse, it has always been worse.

    What was the difference in a person that did not have the advantage of home schooling and being a successful believer as an adult in comparison to one who failed miserably in life yet had all the advantages of the home schooled?

    Discernment.

    It is that word that I wish all would incorporate into their education and living. Teaching the principle of discernment is the key to teaching the child.

    Then parents might not one day stand "at the window of my house I looked through my casement, and beheld among the simple ones, I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding (the wisdom of discernment),..."
     
  17. sunniemom

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    Principles

    The Bible doesn't give specific information about many subjects. In those cases, we attempt to discern guiding principles. One of the principles that guides our family is that we will not allow our children to be discipled by an unregenerate person.

    We are involved in our local schools, going to meetings, voting, etc... but that does not mean I have to violate my conscience by sending my kids to public schools.

    Missionaries in Scripture were grown adults who had been discipled by other Godly men for years before they were sent. There is nothing that leads me to believe I am to send a child, who quite possibly is not saved yet, and has not been adequately grounded in Scripture and developed spiritual discernment, into a 'mission' field of any kind.

    Public (government) education is a very recent invention, brought about by some unGodly people with unGodly ideas- Rousseau, Mann, Dewey... public education is not the default. Parent directed education is the default. Public school should be a last resort, and parents Scripturally have nothing to prove to an unregenerate world about their parenting decisions.

    When public education is beyond reproach, we'll talk more about 'valid' reasons to homeschool.
     
  18. agedman

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    There is much to which I agree with your post.

    I do think that agenda based propaganda has put ungodly men such as Mann and Dewey into a position in which they might not fully agree. Some of what passes for "public school teaching" would be highly opposed with what Mann considered appropriate. Dewey was certainly a social democrat but refuted Marxism. He was republican in the view that all should have access in the representative decision making process. Both men were concerned that education not be withheld because of money, race, creed, or social standing. However, I also would disagree with many areas that they held firmly - admittedly less so of Mann than Dewey.

    This is certainly not an endorsement, but rather an acknowledgement that both men were active in bringing about some rather necessary changes in social/political influences of the US.

    My concern in this thread has been a call that we actively teach, in every area of contact with our children, discernment.

    If there is one area that has been long lacking and completely necessary for the child's success as both a believer and a member of society, it is that one key element which is called discernment.

    It is discernment which I highly encourage the home schooled, Christian schooled, and even the public schooled children's parents teach.

    It is a lack of discernment that allows the enemy to come as an "angel of light" and deceive. If such is the case for the adults, how much more is this angel involved in the peers and friendships of the children?

    Because of the enemy's work, it seems fairly logical that parents should not attempt a "holy huddle" approach in education. As folks from cradle to grave are no doubt social networking oriented (not the electronic type of networking) then the great commission missionary view must also be a part of the education. The children should be able to discern not only what is righteous and unrighteous of their own life, but develop missionary discernment and concern for their peers.

    This builds not only a Christian awareness, but calls upon the young believer to present a uniquely Christian character to their world of acquaintances. This education eventually provides the basis for the young hormonally driven decisions that all growing into adulthood face. That those decisions be well grounded upon their own principled values and not merely, "My mom won't let me" or "My dad would kill me if I did ..."
     
  19. sunniemom

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    A few concerns

    My concerns/objections are (but not limited to:smilewinkgrin:) :
    1)children are being asked to be missionaries when they themselves are not yet regenerate

    2)they aren't given adequate time to mature- physically, mentally, and emotionally- before being sent into a situation as unsupervised and challenging as public school

    3)that Scripture never gives us any reason to believe that children are to be 'sent' unsupervised into any kind of 'mission field'

    4)parents aren't given the authority or directives to 'send' their children on any kind of spiritual mission

    5)the Biblical pattern for missions is to go out in twos- are children sent to school with a spiritual partner? I think not.

    6)parents are instructed to educate and admonish their children in Scriptures, and we are forbidden to tolerate false teaching and false teachers in our midst- and somehow a public school education doesn't qualify?

    7)that after an 8-hour school day and the typical 2-3 hours spent on homework, exactly how much discipling and admonishing does the average parent have time to do with their child in the evenings? They spend what time they do have deprogramming their kids instead of teaching and bonding with them. The way some of my public school friends live sounds more like the school has custody and the parents have visitation rights on weekends. :confused:

    8)criticisms like this (not fulfilling the Great Commission) are often aimed at homeschooling parents, but not at those who send their kids to Christian school. Why not?

    9) a very few homeschoolers are isolationists. VERY FEW. Most are active in their communities. The lost have not been corralled primarily into public schools. They also go to the store, the park, the library, the skating rink, the bowling alley, and they even live in our neighborhoods. There are charities that homeschool kids can get involved in (we visit nursing homes, work with an agency that trains service dogs for disabled children, and have helped with a Habitat for Humanity house project). There are academic competitions and athletic programs. And most high school homeschoolers I know have jobs.

    If isolationism was a significant characteristic of homeschoolers, I'd understand the concern. But the few don't get to characterize the many, no matter how often people try to pigeonhole homeschoolers by pointing out the 2% who are on one extreme or the other.
     
  20. agedman

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    I think you have some very good concerns that need to be explored. They are most certainly areas in which there is great agreement and a few that I would add some thinking.


    Perhaps a better word I could have used was witnesses. There are no family secrets especially in the public school. What happens at home is shared at the school. That is the nature of small children. They have no boundary of shame or thoughts of what is inappropriate (not speaking of older children). So, as the home talks of the wonders of God, the child will witness of those things at school. Regenerate or not the witness takes place.

    It is very good that parents be highly aware of all aspects of the child's growth. Unlike many dysfunctional family situations, the believer's family should be structured on the principles of the Scriptures. Personally, I think the greatest hindrance of the modern education is the age/grade system. I have seen six year old children able to work two or three academic years ahead, and those who were older unable to read. All aspects need to be considered and factored into any educational setting and a wise parent will moderate that setting accordingly.


    I agree. If the school (public, private, home) is "unsupervised" there is no accountability.

    I agree. Yet, we send them off on all kinds of occasions - summer camps, overnight stays, ...

    The point being, that wise parenting stresses discernment. Even the home is a spiritual mission, perhaps the greatest mission field, for it is where the foundational truths are taught. It is also where the Satan is most active!

    I would be a bit careful of putting great weight upon the "two" and put more upon the fact that "I am with you, always..."

    I say this because, even now in the national news, there is a young teen lady who will probably end up in a foreign land where she has no language skills and no background. Her immediate family died and the next of kin are illegally here from Brazil.

    For parents to assume they will always be there for the children (especially in the uncertainty of the age) may be good for the child, and that is right to say. But, better is that Jesus will never leave them.


    I agree that parents are the final authority - although all states have laws making them the final authority by virtue of the right to remove, without court order, children from the home. I think that is horrible law! Necessary, but still horrible.

    However, I would caution that you don't apply the false teaching aspect (for that is for the assembly and the false teaching of Scriptures) to the typical school (home, private, public). Teaching evolution isn't false teaching as much as it is presenting commonly heard thinking that needs to be continually inspected and refuted in the home.

    We taught our children that they have the right to respond to a test question with the answer the teacher determined was correct, and then to inform the teacher of why they rejected the answer. That way, they satisfied the requirements and still stood upon the principles of faith.



    I remember the same argument being expressed by those who sent their children off to "Christian" colleges (Baylor, Stetson, Howard Payne...) and then found their children "rejecting the faith."

    Would that the parents had taught their child discernment!!!

    The problem isn't "programing" the child, for such programing doesn't last in the hormonally driven days of "my parents are dumb."

    In my opinion, there are two times a parent can significantly mold the character of a child. Ages zero to three - they learn that "no" means "no" and the ages 10 to 13 - they learn "no" still means "no." :)

    Certainly, some parents have abdicated the throne to others. Would that parenting skills were innately found in all adults.


    A most excellent point!!!!

    During the 70's and 80's a lot of churches jumped into the private school industry, and the thinking was to "protect the children" and "raise up an army for the Lord." Some also put political, educational, racial, social and other agenda's into the mix.


    The question is similar as you asked. Where is the army???

    Again, it came down to parents abdicating to someone else the responsibility.

    Here is a study that needs to be considered.

    All children thrive (educationally) in a strong school setting (academic and structure) until about the 3rd to 4th grades. Then, unless there is an engaged and supportive home, the chance of success is extremely poor even though the school may be strong. However, with supportive and engaged parenting no matter the weakness or strength of the educational system, the success rate is extremely high.



    This is all very good and commendable. Would that the media would show more of these good examples you have given.

    Here is a problem. The earlier part of the post supported no mixture of putting the child into "unsupervised" or "non-religious" situations. Yet, in this section of your post, you show that is exactly what takes place.

    Now, I know you are going to bring up "unsupervised," but that is the key that we both agree.

    The engaged parent does not have an unsupervised child. No matter the school (home, private, public) the parent is involved.

    Because of the interaction and the banter, the child of believers should gather discernment and carry the interaction and banter as a witness to their peers and other adults in all settings.

    My very young son was standing in the grocery cart looking at a man buying cigarettes.

    Unashamedly, my son blurted out, "Those are bad. They will kill you!"

    Ah, the witness of the young. :)
     

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