Did all of Christ die on the Cross.

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Ben W, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Obviously we believe that Christs fleshly body died on the cross. Yet how about His soul? Was there a point where His soul was dead also?

    I found the reference to God having a Soul in Isaiah 1:14 "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my Soul hates-"
     
  2. LandonL

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    I think the term in Isaiah is merely a figurative term. God was basically saying that he hated the ritualism of Judaism in Isaiah's day with all of his being.

    As to whether Christ's soul died, I doubt it. "God is spirit," John 4:24 says. The trinity is coeternal, and to surmise that a member of the Godhead ceased to exist for three days would violate this point of doctrine, because that would provide an end and a new beginning to God the Son.

    I Peter is the place to look for the answer to this. While this passage is open to many, many translations, a -very- plausible explanation is that the Apostle, in I Peter 3:18-20, tells us that during the intermission between Good Friday and Easter, Christ descended into hell to proclaim his victory over sin to the demonic spirits God imprisoned in hell during the days of Noah.

    So, I suppose my thesis is that as Peter tells us Christ was doing -something-, it's highly doubtful that Christ's sould 'died'.
     
  3. geno

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    Ben, The word "death" weans "seperation" not destruction as some teach. When Adam and Eve sinned they were not destroyed yet they died. So once we reach the age of accountability and choose to sin we die, seperation from God. When our precious Lord went to the cross and took upon himself the sins of the world (He who knew no sin) He was seperated from God the Father. That is why He cried out on the cross "my God, My God why hast thou forsaken me." He died spiritually to God. I hope this helps in your study. Geno
     
  4. Ben W

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    I am not sure that I understand exactly how to view this question. I know that Jesus died on the Cross, being Trinitarian, I believe that all of God died then, Revelation teaches us that Yahweh our Father is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, and subsaquently that in Rev 1:18 the First and the Last was dead yet now lives.

    It seems to me that there has to have been a point where Christ's Body and Soul was dead. In order to pay the price for our sins.
     
  5. Me2

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    Jesus "Spirit and soul" didnt die.

    it entered into death yet it never was dead

    He was righteous sacrifice.

    the spirit of christ entered into death (this world)
    and upon seperation of his body at ITS physical demise...

    his soul and spirit went back to the Father.
    his body was transformed into a glorious body.

    his soul and spirit was placed back into his new "resurrected" glorified body.

    the only thing that "died" was his physical body.

    1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
     
  6. Jim1999

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    2 Cor 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." and Romans 8:3 "...God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and by the sacrifice for sin, condemned sin in the flesh..."

    Whilst Jesus the man took upon himself the sins of the whole world, and the penalty for that sin, he himself was without sin. Whilst the human Jesus died fully on the cross, Jesus as God could not die.

    We cannot begin to comprehend either the Godhead or the total nature of God. Every analogy will fall short.

    He remained the perfect lamb of God to the end as a sacrifice acceptable unto God for the price of sin, yet he remained pure and holy in and of Himself.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. Ben W

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    So in theory then with all of the points that you guys have raised, we can say that Jesus did not as 100% of who He is, die on the cross?
     
  8. Me2

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    Jesus Christ was the righteous sacrifice.

    (he was made sin, yet he knew no sin.)

    it was his flesh body that was seperated from his soul/spirit. It "died" to appease Gods law.
    (Lev 17:11)

    afterwards He was given a glorified Body.

    His soul and spirit cannot "die". they are eternal.

    Jesus Christ is the Eternal Word.(John 1:1)
     
  9. Daniel Dunivan

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    Jesus was dead in the same since that my great-grandmother is dead (otherwise he wasn't truly human). Distinction between body and soul is never found in the text, and is arguably a question that the Hebrew mind would disallow. Furthermore, to separate Jesus' humanity and his divinity in this way is absolute heresy!

    Grace and Peace, Danny [​IMG]
     
  10. Me2

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    Are you implying that God died in his spirit?
     
  11. LandonL

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    It's not heresy. A human body can die. An immortal soul cannot. This isn't gnosticism or heresy, it's simple theology. All Christians believe in the immortality of the soul.

    While Christ in bodily form was dead, his soul did not die. God is eternal; he has no beginning and no end.
     
  12. Daniel Dunivan

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    Landon,

    Yes, theology as demanded by Greek philosophy. The question whether Jesus died or not is identical to the question of whether Aristotle died or not. We can really run into problems when we say "sure his divinity didn't die." That seems to beg the question: "What part of Jesus is really Jesus"? When you approach it from the angle exampled above you're running very close to saying that Jesus' divinity constitutes his person. That is heresy. Jesus is both fully human and divine before and after the crucifixion (and resurrection), continuously. Just as I am human before my death and at my resurrection. Our bodies are not simply discarded--they are the platform God uses in the "change" and intrensically tied to our ontology.

    Grace and Peace, Danny [​IMG]
     
  13. Daniel Dunivan

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    Obviously this is a mystery, and we run into trouble when we try to be too definiative.

    Grace and Peace, Danny [​IMG]
     
  14. Me2

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    Which sin convicted Jesus of spiritual death?

    Which law was broken?

    which law slew Jesus spirit, condemning him to spiritual death?

    there is none.

    there was no preaching in hell, or lying in the grave for 3 days. His spirit rightfully returned back to His father.

    Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

    Jesus rightfully returned to his father. declared lord and took his position on the right hand of the father, while his "Lifeless" body was still nailed to the cross.

    He "died" a righteous sacrifice.
     
  15. LandonL

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    Me2, if there was no preaching in hell, please interpret the passage in Peter I mentioned above for me.

    Daniel Dunivan, when did I ever assert that Jesus' body was discarded? When did I ever assert that his divinity alone constituted his person? His divinity and his humanity constituted his person.

    I never doubted Jesus' humanity; you are placing words in my mouth and using that to call me a Gnostic heretic. This I do not appreciate.
     
  16. HankD

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    John 2
    19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

    Jesus being the eternal Logos, the Second person of the Trinity, raised Himself from the dead.

    James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

    His human body suffered death at which point His Spirit returned to His father.

    HankD
     
  17. untangled

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    Amen Brother Jim!
     
  18. Ben W

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    When God speaks in Revelation stating that He is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End, is He in a Spirit or Bodily form?
     
  19. HankD

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    Why does that matter Ben?

    God is a spirit, God, the Son has a body, once mortal now glorified.

    HankD
     
  20. Artimaeus

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    The problem here is that we are missing the triune nature of man. We each have a body, a soul, and a spirit and quite frequently misuse the two terms of soul and spirit as though they were the same thing. Jesus' body died on the cross. Jesus' soul, the aspect of his humanity which was limited by brain size, experiences, and those things He willingly divested himself of to become a man, His soul reverted to that higher soul that He had enjoyed from eternity past and will continue to have for eternity future. Jeus' Spirit remained unchanged.

    A similar thing can be said of man. At death our body dies, our soul which has hopefully been becoming more like Christ as the years progress is finally comformed completely, our spirit has already been changed at salvation.
     

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