Did Christ actually save anyone on the cross?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by whetstone, Jul 7, 2005.

  1. whetstone

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    I know this has been brought up ad nauseum, but I'd like to reissue the question since it's been a while since it was adressed. Did Christ ACTUALLY save anyone on the cross or was it merely potential salvation that needed free will to activate it?
     
  2. dianetavegia

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    1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

    1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.

    Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

    Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

    Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

    Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

    Colossians 1:20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.

    Colossians 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

    Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
     
  3. TexasSky

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    Whetstone:

    You asked: Did Christ ACTUALLY save anyone on the cross or was it merely potential salvation that needed free will to activate it?

    I ask: Did Christ ACTUALLY save anyone on the cross, or had He already, before going to the cross, saved some, damned others, and just went to the cross because He wanted to add a little drama to the lives of the Romans and Jews of the first century AD?
     
  4. whatever

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    Yes and no.
     
  5. OldRegular

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    Jesus Christ, throuth His death on the cross, saved all those whom God the Father had chosen to salvation in Jesus Christ before the foundations of the world.
     
  6. inpeace

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    For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost (Luke 19:10).

    Here the Lord Jesus Himself speaks of the reason for His coming. He came to seek and to save the lost. Few have a problem with His seeking; many have a problem with the idea that He actually accomplished all of His mission. Jesus, however, made it clear that He came to actually save the lost. He did this by His death

    Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance:
    Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners---of whom I am the worst (1 Timothy 1:15).

    Paul asserts that the purpose of Christ's coming into the world was to actually save sinners. Nothing in Paul's words leads us to the conclusion that is so popular today---that Christ's death simply makes salvation a possibility rather than a reality. Christ came to save. So, did He? And how did He? Was it not by His death? Most certainly. The atoning death of Christ provides forgiveness of sins for all those for whom it is made. That is why Christ came.

    But because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them (Hebrews 7:24-26).

    Christ's atoning death is clearly connected with His advocacy before the Father. Therefore, we can see the following truths:

    1) It is impossible that the Son would not intercede for everyone for whom He died. If Christ dies as their Substitute, how could He not present His sacrifice in their stead before the Father? Can we really believe that Christ would die for someone that He did not intend to save?

    2) It is impossible that anyone for whom the Son did not die could receive Christ's intercession. If Christ did not die in behalf of a certain individual, how could Christ intercede for that individual, since He would have no grounds upon which to seek the Father's mercy?

    3) It is impossible that anyone for whom the Son intercedes could be lost. Can we imagine the Son pleading before the Father, presenting His perfect atonement in behalf of an individual that He wishes to save, and the Father rejecting the Son's intercession? The Father always hears the Son (John 11:42). Would He not hear the Son's pleas in behalf of all that the Son desires to save? Furthermore, if we believe that Christ can intercede for someone that the Father will not save, then we must believe either 1) that there is dissension in the Godhead, the Father desiring one thing, the Son another, or 2) that the Father is incapable of doing what the Son desires Him to do. Both positions are utterly impossible.

    Just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many (Matthew 20:28).

    The "many" for whom Christ died are the elect of God, just as Isaiah had said long before,

    By his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities. (Isaiah 53:11)
     
  7. russell55

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    Drama, alright, but hardly just drama! It was a necessary demonstration of God's righteousness. Christ's death provided a just way for God to have already forgiven sin. Those sins already passed over could rightly be passed over because Christ would, in the fulness of time, be the propitation for them.

    .... God put [Christ Jesus] forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3)
     
  8. Wes Outwest

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    Jesus' death on the cross did not save a single person.

    However, without Jesus' death on the cross not a single person could receive everlasting life, because Jesus' death paid the penalty due us who have sinned, and faced death for our sins. But sin has been atoned so we do not die for our sins because Jesus died in our stead.

    Because Jesus died on the Cross we can receive everlasting life as a free gift of God by believing (faithing) in the one the FATHER sent to us. For by God' grace we are saved through OUR faith! And not of ourselves, it (salvation) is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast!

    So Jesus' death on the Cross does not save us unless we believe in HIM! That is what the scriptures have said for a couple thousand years, and I BELIEVE IT!
     
  9. TexasSky

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    It is a gift of God, that we must receive. To receive it we must believe in Him.
     
  10. OldRegular

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    As usual you are contradicted by Scripture:

    Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
     
  11. OldRegular

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    You need to decide whether or not you believe Salvation is the Gift of God or whether we earn it by our faith.
     
  12. Wes Outwest

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    As usual you are contradicted by Scripture:

    Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
    </font>[/QUOTE]AS USUAL, you take a single numbered verse out of its context and with it FALSELY accuse your brother.

    Who sang the new song?
    It wasn't mere man praising the Lamb of God else it would have been a multitude singing the new song.

    Yes, it says that with "his blood" he bought a people for God. That however does not mean that the people were saved by being bought, especially in light of ALL the scriptures that declare we, individually, must have faith in God for our salvation, and that faith comes from hearing HIS word.

    The Blood of Christ defeated the only true enemy of man, which is death. And it has removed the penalty of sin from man so that man now can have everlasting life by believing in Jesus.

    It's a shame you do not understand the simplicity of God's plan! It really does confound the wise.
     
  13. Wes Outwest

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    You need to decide whether or not you believe Salvation is the Gift of God or whether we earn it by our faith. </font>[/QUOTE]Earn it by faith? Quote the scripture that says that salvation is earned by faith!

    Faith itself is not earnable, there is no way that something that is not earnable can be spent for that which is not purchaseable.

    I hope you are not a pastor, responsible for the souls of others, because with your theology you would certainly be condemned for false teaching.
     
  14. whetstone

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    Actually it is you who would be condemning people by telling them that Christ didn't save anyone on the cross.
     
  15. Wes Outwest

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    Actually it is you who would be condemning people by telling them that Christ didn't save anyone on the cross. </font>[/QUOTE]And if I told them that because Jesus did die on the cross to remove the penalty of sin from mankind, that they, by believing in Jesus, are the recipient of everlasting life with him. Would I be condemning them? Yes or NO is adequate.

    You see, it is not Christ's dying that saves people, it is HIS LIVING that saves people who have faith in Him.
     
  16. here now

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    Wes says:
    You see, it is not Christ's dying that saves people, it is HIS LIVING that saves people who have faith in Him.
    ****************************************

    Here Now's reply:
    So is the Bible wrong?
    This is what it says.

    Hebrews 9:
    15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, THAT BY MEANS OF DEATH, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

    16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the DEATH of the testator.
     
  17. OldRegular

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    WesOutwest,
    There is no scripture that says that Salvation is earned by faith unless you consider your own statements scripture. You are the one who claims that Salvation is earned by faith when you state: "we can receive everlasting life as a free gift of God by believing (faithing)."

    You are correct on this one. Faith is the gift of God!

    I am not a pastor and no pastor is responsible for the souls of anyone. God alone is responsible for the ultimate disposition of my soul and the soul of every man.
     
  18. OldRegular

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    I thought that Satan was the only true enemy of man:

    Hebrews 2:14, 15
    14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
    15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
     
  19. Wes Outwest

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    For one to be redeemed, all obstacles and obligations to redemption must be satisfied. Man was not redeemable because of the penalty God established for sin. That penalty, death, was satisfied Once, and for ALL by the death of Jesus. But no one was actually redeemed by that one magnanimous death. The single obstacle to man having everlasting life was death for sin. ALL have sinned. Jesus removed that Obstacle by dying in our stead, thus clearing away the impediment to man having everlasting life.

    That left one other obstacle, God's word tells us that our salvation is a free gift to those who have faith in him, and especially in his Son, the Christ, the one who paid the penalty of our sins for us.

    God does not give faith to man, but did indeed give man every reason to have faith in him.

    God remains in the state of being gracious toward mankind (giving grace) for the purpose of giving man the time and opportunity to Hear his Word and come to faith in His son. All who do, receive everlasting life (salvation). All who do not, are cast into the lake of fire.

    Jesus' death was universal and unilateral, and it's purpose was to remove the penalty of sin from ALL of mankind so that man through his faith, could have everlasting life. No man dies for sin, but those who do die that second death do so because they lack faith in God!
     
  20. Wes Outwest

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    I thought that Satan was the only true enemy of man:

    Hebrews 2:14, 15
    14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
    15. And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I've never met any human who knows the devil personally and up close and can describe what he looks like. Yes the devil had the power to bring man to death by lies, deception and fraud, against man's spirit.

    However, no court in the world could convict the devil for causing another's death, for there are no human witnesses to such a death.

    Human accusations against the devil are based on nothing more than man's understanding of things of the spirit, and no Calvinist, staying within his own doctrines, would confess that man has any ability to understand the things of spirit! So where is the devil's accuser? Only in the spiritual realm.

    "We wrestle not with flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers". Satan is a principality, death is his power.
     

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