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Did Eve Lie To The Serpent?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by standingfirminChrist, Apr 11, 2008.

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  1. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Genesis 3:2-3 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

    I had always heard that Eve added to God's Word when she said 'neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." And I had always believed that she did because of other's teaching so.

    But tonight, as Linda and I were studying the Word, a thought came to me.

    Did Eve really lie to the serpent in that statement?

    I wonder if God may have instructed her not to touch it and it just was not recorded by Moses?

    The reason I ask this is because of a verse found in Romans 5

    Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

    Was it disobedience that brought sin into the world? or was it a lie?

    If a lie, then Eve lied before being deceived.

    Theologians, have at it.
     
    #1 standingfirminChrist, Apr 11, 2008
  2. nunatak

    nunatak New Member

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    Whether Eve lied to the serpent is, imo, superfluos.

    Sin came into the world because of Adam.

    Period.
     
    #2 nunatak, Apr 12, 2008
  3. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    But if Eve lied to the serpent, sin would already have to have been in the world. And we know she ate of the fruit first and then gave to Adam.

    Are you saying before Adam ate of the fruit lying was not a sin?
     
    #3 standingfirminChrist, Apr 12, 2008
  4. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    Possibility: You can be wrong about something without lying. Maybe Eve had built an imaginary boundary around the thing she was not supposed to do, and after awhile she just assumed it was part of the original instructions.
     
    #4 readmore, Apr 12, 2008
  5. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Um, regardless, Eve was deceived; Adam was not.
    Someone once said that the problem was not the apple on the tree, but was the pair on the ground.

    Ed
     
    #5 EdSutton, Apr 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 12, 2008
  6. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she lied. I think they had added a layer of protection to what God had said. God said, "Don't eat". So they thought that if they never touched it, they would never eat it. So they added something to God's commands.

    It's sort of like when people add man's commands to what God has said.

    But I agree that it's not a lie when you're wrong. If that's true I told a lot of lies on the tests I took in school. :laugh:
     
    #6 Tom Bryant, Apr 12, 2008
  7. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    If God never said it but she said He did, that would be a lie.

    If Adam told her that God said 'neither shall ye touch it' and God did not say it, then it was a lie.

    Adding any amount of words to a direct quote of another makes the quote no longer the original speaker's quote.

    So, if she added to the warning, and stated that it was the warning God spoke, she lied.

    She would have lied before the deception.
     
    #7 standingfirminChrist, Apr 12, 2008
  8. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    :)

    I had a fairly lengthy reply prepared, but then I looked back at your post, SFIC, and I realized you must be joking...

    Good one!

    :laugh:
     
    #8 readmore, Apr 12, 2008
  9. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    No joking, readmore.

    I am trying to figger this one out.

    Either God told them not to touch the tree and Moses did not record it in the Book of Genesis, or Eve added to God's Word making it a lie.

    And yet she was not deceived until the serpent told her ' Ye shall not die... ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.'
     
    #9 standingfirminChrist, Apr 12, 2008
  10. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    Struggling with a passage is good and honorable, I know you're not joking about that. I mean the quote above. I figured surely you must be joking about that.

    What if, as I originally proposed, Eve was simply mistaken? Is it a sin (a lie in this case) to be wrong, or to make a mistake?
     
    #10 readmore, Apr 12, 2008
  11. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    The simple statement 'Thou mayest not eat thereof, lest ye die" surely would have been easy for her to remember.

    After all, she did quote the same warning, word for word to the serpent, but added 'neither shall ye touch it.'

    To add that if God did not say it would be making His Word a lie; or as Paul stated in Romans 1 some would do... turn the truth into a lie.
     
    #11 standingfirminChrist, Apr 12, 2008
  12. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    Okay, it sounds like you're unwilling to even consider the possibility that Eve was mistaken. Even though throughout history we've seen a pattern of people creating "boundaries" around the commandments that God established and then coming to consider these things part of His actual Word.

    At least we can agree that someone who says something that is in error, but is honestly mistaken about it, is not sinning?
     
    #12 readmore, Apr 12, 2008
  13. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    Whether Eve was mistaken or not, it would still be a lie. She spoke an untruth if God did not say it and she said He did.

    A lie is a lie whether told by mistake or on purpose.
     
    #13 standingfirminChrist, Apr 12, 2008
  14. readmore

    readmore New Member

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    Absolutely amazing. I still kind of think you're joking.

    I don't suppose a dictionary definition of lie would shed some light on this for you?

    How far do you take this definition of lying? What if someone tells a joke... You know, someone says, "A guy walks into a bar... Another guy says, 'Ouch, that must hurt!'" Have they told a lie since no actual event occurred, in reality, as described? Have I told a lie by just stating a hypothetical situation?
     
    #14 readmore, Apr 12, 2008
  15. JerryL

    JerryL New Member

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    All things God said to persons aren't recorded. Maybe he told Adam not to touch it and Moses didn't record it exactly that way. Maybe he was just making a point that they should leave it alone, either eat or touch it.
     
    #15 JerryL, Apr 12, 2008
  16. PK

    PK New Member

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    I am no theologian but if Eve lied and you think that this is how sin entered the world then Rom. 5:19 is a lie as well. Just a thought??
     
    #16 PK, Apr 12, 2008
  17. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    The first time the word 'lie' is used in the Old Testament in the context of telling a lie is in Leviticus 19:11.

    The Hebrew is translated 'shaqar' and it means

    a primitive root; to cheat, i.e. be untrue (usually in words):--fail, deal falsely, lie.

    The first time it is used in the New Testament is in John 8:44.

    The Greek is translated 'pseudos' and it means

    a falsehood:--lie, lying.

    Neither definition are translated as saying'telling a untruth with intention to deceive. They just say a falsehood, be untrue, deal falsely, lie.A lie is a lie whether joking around or not.
     
    #17 standingfirminChrist, Apr 12, 2008
  18. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist New Member

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    PK,

    No, I believe Romans 5:19... as well as the rest of the Word of God.

    I am just saying I think God must have said 'neither shall ye touch it' at some point before Eve told the serpent that. Else she would have been telling a lie.
     
    #18 standingfirminChrist, Apr 12, 2008
  19. PK

    PK New Member

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    I agree 100%
     
    #19 PK, Apr 12, 2008
  20. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    You are arguing from silence.

    This is one of those questions that you can discuss but never figure out. I personally think you are reading too much into it. When you get to heaven ask Eve.
     
    #20 Tom Bryant, Apr 12, 2008
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