Did God Allow the President a Second Term?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    It is my opinion based upon Matthew 7:13-14 [the narrow path to heaven is not as heavily traveled as the wide road to hell] meaning there are tons of folks who are influenced by the devil and, or, the opinions of the world they live in, and it was the road widely traveled that served to cast the votes that elected Obama to the second term.

    Then in Romans 1:26, we see that "God gave them over to their own vile understandings!" which to me means that mankind is on its own when it comes to what they do, and don't do, morally. And like it or not, the election of public leaders is a moral choice....:tonofbricks:

    You may or may not agree with my theology, but as I see it, God let mankind [here in America] have their hearts desire. However, He never elected Obama to the second term, in my humble opinion, that is! :thumbs:
     
  2. Oldtimer

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    1 Samuel 8: KJB
    20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

    21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the Lord.

    22 And the Lord said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city.
     
  3. annsni

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  4. Crabtownboy

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    God allows people in the US democracy to use their free will to vote for whom they what to be their president.
     
  5. Tom Bryant

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    I am sorry that you have such a weak God that He surrendered his sovereignty over to people.
     
  6. webdog

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    Quite simply...if He had no control, He is not God. He either decrees or allows all thing that happen. Read 1 and 2 Kings again to see most of the kings he allowed to rule were wicked.
     
  7. saturneptune

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    I think when Jesus talked to Pilate about power from above, it was made quite clear that all power on earth is ordained.
     
  8. Crabtownboy

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    That brings up a question. Power is ordained .... i.e. the office of the president has power. But does did Jesus mean that individuals were ordained to be president?
     
  9. Zaac

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    In response to the title question, simply Yes. He is President because God allowed it.
     
  10. timf

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    Satan is called the prince of this world and sets its course (Eph. 2:2).

    We are not unaware of his schemes (2 Cor. 2:11)

    One might surmise that since Satan cannot be everywhere at once he must advance global collectivism in order to leverage his influence over the world.

    The natural man has a limit to the level of collectivization he can tolerate. Collective enterprises such as street gangs or even armies reach some point where those at the higher levels want to take over and chaos ensures as the collective either fragments or unravels. I think feudal Japan might be the highest level of collectivization that can be sustained naturally.

    To achieve and sustain higher levels of collectivization Satan needed to exploit Christians. Because of the indwelling Holy Spirit, Christians are capable of manifesting less destructive selfishness, particularly if they are inclined to think that their collectivization serves a religious purpose.

    Just as the power of the Catholic church was declining, people allowed their allegiance to be transferred to nation states. Emergent trade and industry created a new environment, a social environment, that allowed people to see themselves less as a family or as a resident of a village and more as a member of a trade, region, or enterprise.

    Once Satan could get Christians divorced from the natural world and integrated into his artificial world (society), he could start to exert control more directly.

    Democracy may not be the panacea that many think. It may actually be iron mixed with miry clay. Democracy seems a complete failure anywhere it is tried with non-Christians, the exception being Japan whose legacy of societal rigidity may have given it an apparent "success" for a few generations. Our American revolution was not Christian since the Bible equates rebellion with witchcraft.

    In our recent history in the US we find an FDR, LBJ, or BHO that greatly advance global collectivism only to have a brief period of adjusting before the next round of "noose tightening" begins.

    Christians have been deceived into thinking that our hope is in a political leader that will slow the rate at which we are being strangled. The truth is that there are fewer Christians. This means fewer people that are even capable of discerning truth much less caring about truth.

    Fewer Christians even seems to give rational for increasing collectivism. As we become more criminal and less able to govern ourselves, it seems only prudent to give the government more control, issue rules at will, and take over our lives. It is easy to see how people will rejoice and cry out , "Peace and safety".

    America has led the way to the enslavement of the world. Our sorceries (pharmakeia) of oral contraception (which may only prevent ovulation 50% of the time) may have filled the earth with the blood of over a billion babies. Our pornography has polluted the world. Our entertainment has been used to exacerbate lust and greed that pollutes the world. Our technology has created the tools to enslave the world.

    If we stand back and look at the history of the world coming to its natural conclusion, we should be able to anticipate the immanent return of our Savior.

    2 Timothy 3:1-7 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Satan rules this world (for now and insofar as he is allowed by God). There is a time coming when he will not. We Christians in American should not blind ourselves to how we have been used (and are still used) to harm others. We are to walk in truth and not be wise in our own conceits.

    It is political events such as these that can remind us that we may have been in danger of becoming friendly with the world and thus enemies of God.
     
  11. 12strings

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    This is obvious...the alternative is:

    "God did not allow it, but it happened anyway"
    ...Not very comforting when you go to pray for your sick child, now is it?

    The bigger question, is "Did God CAUSE it." That's where the real debate lies.

    Anyone who says God didn't allow it has surrendered God's omnipotence in a weak effort to protect his reputation.
     
  12. Van

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    I think it is feeble to blame God for what does not mesh with our desires.

    A majority of Americans have become "willing slaves" voting to enslave themselves to the rulers of the government. They do not believe in a God given right to life, they believe government can make the murder to the per-born legal. Most today do not remember the lessen of Germany where the legal system said it was legal to murder inferior folks, mostly Jews and gypsies.

    In the last century more than 30 million people were murdered by their government, yet the majority of Americans trust the government to take care of them. Since abortion became "legal" more than 5 million living human beings, who had done nothing wrong, have been murdered in the name of the law.
     
  13. LadyEagle

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  14. Iconoclast

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    Dan4:
    17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.



    God does not rule the nations like an absentee God who winds up this world like a clock....then just let's it run it's course. He is in control of all things.

    It could be nations, individuals, angels, devils, or:
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    Dude,

    Many times God "giving sinners what they want....is more an act of Divine judgement rather than as others suggest...letting them do what they will....

    Giving sinners what they desire is judgement rather than mercy.
     
  16. mont974x4

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    This is what I wrote on the subject yesterday:

    I fully rest in the knowledge that God is all sovereign. He is not only unsurprised when things happen, His hand is in it all.

    I also fully rest in the knowledge and wisdom of Romans 8:28-30 which tells me all these things are for my ultimate good (that being more and more conformed to the image of Christ) and for His ultimate glory.

    I also fully rest in the knowledge that God, being sovereign, places ALL people in authority. In the US He works through the voters. LadyEagle has pointed out, in more than one post, that America got what it wanted. The list includes unrighteous things like abortion, gay marriage, and reliance on the government.

    So, knowing God is all sovereign and the people voted Obama in do you think God moved the hearts of the voters? I believe He did. I base that on what I read about God working in the hearts of people. A prime example is pharaoh.

    Exo 4:21 The LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders which I have put in your power; but I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go. (NASB, emphasis mine)


    On the positive side He does change hearts so that people fear and obey Him.

    Eze 36:26 "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
    Eze 36:27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. (NASB, emphasis mine)


    Therefore, pray. Pray for your pastors and your churches. Pray for the Church. Pray for this nation. Pray for Obama and our other leaders. For perhaps God will have mercy for His namesake and change the hearts of the people. Even if He doesn't we must serve the Lord.
     
  17. SovereignMercy

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    X2. That is exactly what I thought.
     
  18. LadyEagle

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    Great post, Mont! :thumbs:

    Can I add that perhaps this administration will end up being like "quail" to the American people?

    Just sayin'.
     
  19. Alcott

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    Obviously God did allow the president a second term-- or at least be voted for a second term, as the world might end, he may croak or get bumped off, or our country could be conquered. But all this stuff about such being ordained, or God is not God if he's not 'in control'-- can't agree with that. Every murder, torture, rape-- if he's "in control" of these things and they happen, is he still God? is "he" not anybody? or do we have some nonsensical idea of what he/she/it is?
     
  20. webdog

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    He doesn't need to desire the action to allow it. Fact is if He is not in control, He is not sovereign and is no different than you or I.
     

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