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Did God change all the animals after the fall?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Apr 29, 2006.

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  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    I have talked about this on the net with a christian who doubts this. He says the bible does not mention any of this, which is correct. What do you think?
    But on the other hand if God did not change anything then this would mean that he created the animals exactly the way they are now, with the same insticts and so on. This means that when God created everything and said that it was good that he had created an animal kingdom which is based on the survival of the fittest,death and suffering. This is something which I cannot really imagine. But on the other hand it's also kind of hard to imagine that all animals were supposed to be vegetarians. I mean a spider for example which is vegetarian doesn't need a web. So either God changed the animals after the fall and gave them new instincts or he already created them like this. Is it possible that only in the garden of Eden everything was perfect and outside of the garden the environment wasn't as perfect and that outside of this garden death already existed?
     
    #1 xdisciplex, Apr 29, 2006
  2. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Don't know. I can only speak for myself, but if the Bible doesn't address it, I don't think it is important to my Christian faith.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #2 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 29, 2006
  3. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    But I simply cannot imagine that God created the animals the way they are today. If this was God's will then why will lions eat grass on the new earth? I cannot imagine that God likes the way the animal kingdom works. It's beautiful but at the same time totally mercyless. :(
     
    #3 xdisciplex, Apr 29, 2006
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Ok. It just doesn't matter to me, and quite honestly, I am not sure why it matters to you.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #4 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 29, 2006
  5. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    Um..I don't understand why it doesn't matter to you. ;)
     
    #5 xdisciplex, Apr 29, 2006
  6. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Because it certainly didn't matter to Scripture enough to address the issue. Therefore, it is irellevant to my faith.

    Now, why does it matter to you?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #6 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 29, 2006
  7. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex New Member

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    It simply interests me. I mean it has a lot to do with God's character. I cannot imagine that God embraces nature the way it is now or can you imagine that God looks at a fly which is trapped in the web of a spider waiting to be eaten alive and then calls this "good"? I cannot imagine this. :(
     
    #7 xdisciplex, Apr 29, 2006
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Whatever God's will is, that is fine with me.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #8 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 29, 2006
  9. Joseph M. Smith

    Joseph M. Smith New Member

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    The question assumes a rather literal reading of Genesis' creation story and then raises questions which, as Joseph Botwinick says, the Bible does not deal with. I think the reason the Bible does not deal with them is that the Bible is not a zoology textbook, any more than it is a biology or astronomy or other kind of science book. It is about the nature of humanity and our broken relationship with God and about what God is doing to bring us back to Himself.

    The question you have raised is in that realm of theology called "theodicy", and will never fully be answered satisfactorily. Why pain and suffering anywhere? I can only say that it is because we live in a broken world, in a world that has gone awry from stem to stern because of sin .. that is to say, it is not just that we humans are off course, but the world itself, the ecology, is less than God intended. The vision is, after all, that the lion shall lie down with the lamb and they shall not hurt anymore in My holy mountain, says the Lord.
     
    #9 Joseph M. Smith, Apr 29, 2006
  10. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    I don't have any problem with the original creation "being good", but still evolving through natural election and survival. Even man has evolved over time and adjusted with the changes in the globe. Some animals have become extinct over time and circumstance. Some animals feed off others and help retain the balance of nature. Frnakly, I think, God created "in the beginning". He set things in motion to take care of itself, and only intervenes when it suits His purposes and will.

    Chapter and verse; Jim chapter one, verse one,

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #10 Jim1999, Apr 30, 2006
  11. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    If it doesn't matter to you, or doesn't interest you, why do you post four times stating this on a thread you have no interest in?
     
    #11 webdog, Apr 30, 2006
  12. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    I am curious why it mattered to him since it doesn't matter to Scripture. Why do you ask? Does it matter to you, and if so, why?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #12 Joseph_Botwinick, Apr 30, 2006
  13. Claudia_T

    Claudia_T New Member

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    I think it is because just like man has been degraded more and more by sin, so have the animal kingdom.
     
    #13 Claudia_T, Apr 30, 2006
  14. gekko

    gekko New Member

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    in the beginning... God made all the animals herbivores... says so in Genesis. i'll find the verse later...
     
    #14 gekko, Apr 30, 2006
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In atheist darwinism the "mechanism" in nature is carnage, extinction, starvation, predatation -- "The Law of tooth and Claw"

    But in Genesis 1-2:3 God responds to the work of each day saying that it was all "good". (Not carnage disease and extinction upon extinction).

    In Romans 8 God says that nature itself is subjected to corruption as a result of the fall of mankind.

     
    #15 BobRyan, Apr 30, 2006
  16. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    Good Word Bob! [​IMG]

    Why do people keep forgetting the fall?

    Oh, before i forget..

    God didn't change the Animals, Sin's corruption as a result of Man's Fall changed them...
     
    #16 SpiritualMadMan, Apr 30, 2006
  17. JFox1

    JFox1 New Member

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    Personally, I'm glad that some animals are predators. Can you imagine what the world would be like if flies, mice, rats, and other animals had no natural enemies? The world would be a lot worse than it is now.
     
    #17 JFox1, Apr 30, 2006
  18. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
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    If the animals were degraded by sin after the Fall, then why did God not wipe them out in the Flood like the sinful men?
     
    #18 Matt Black, Apr 30, 2006
  19. SpiritualMadMan

    SpiritualMadMan New Member

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    Maybe because they were innocents because their leaders (man) caused the problem...

    Man was given dominion over the animals and man fell taking animals and creation with him...
     
    #19 SpiritualMadMan, May 1, 2006
  20. gtbuzzarp

    gtbuzzarp New Member

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    Can you imagine God looks at a fly eating poop and calls this "good"? :D

    First of all, just like God wiped out "sinful men" He wiped out animals. Only who and what were on the ark survived (with the exception of marine life I suppose)

    Second of all, animals are not moral beings; therefore, they do not fall under the condemnation of sin like man. Perhaps they suffer the consequences of the fall, but animals are not capable of good or evil. If you believe they are, then you better start evangelizing your Pekinese. :cool:

    It's hard to imagine what nature would be like had the fall not occured, but one good thing about it is a nice big juicy steak! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #20 gtbuzzarp, May 1, 2006
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