Did God create Judas for him to betray Jesus?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by TaliOrlando, Sep 11, 2006.

  1. TaliOrlando

    TaliOrlando
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    I dont think so, I think God knows all ahead of time but still gives us freedom of will to make our own decisions, either for good or bad. Do you believe everything is predestined??
     
  2. LeBuick

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    I'm with you, I believe he had the freedom to choose, however, God knowing all things knew the choice he would make. However, I don't think we can rule out he was the son of perdition (sp?)
     
  3. BobRyan

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    God did not "Create Lucifer to fall and take with him 1/3 of the angels".

    God did not "create Adam to fall and cause the condemnation of all mankind so that His Son could then be tortured and put to death for the sins of the many".

    God did not "create Israel to fail and condemn its own promised Messiah"

    God did not "create Judas to become a disciple be given the gifts of the Spirit then betray the Messiah".

    Satan did all of that twisting and turning of good into evil.

    God knew it - but did not make it happen.

    It's that "free will thing again".

    Those who think that the evil Satan does is NEEDED for God to be successful in His plan to save the world etc - are just not thinking it through.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    So if God knew it, did Judas have a chance to not do it?
     
  5. Blammo

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    Judas had a chance not to do it, but, there was no chance he would not do it. God's knowledge is perfect. God knew Judas would do it, however, He did not make him do it.
     
  6. Brother Bob

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    That is because God is outside of time.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Yes - Judas had free will EVEN though God KNEW what he would do.

    Just like angels in heaven and God Himself have free will AND YET God KNOWS what they will do.

    Just like Jesus on earth had free will and yet God the Father KNEW what He would do.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. Inquiring Mind

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    That we don't know for sure. We do know that someone HAD TO betray Jesus for thirty pieces of Silver. We do know that God will cause someone to atttack Israel. So we could equally say that God could have caused Judas to betray Jesus. The precedent has been set all over the Old Testament.
     
  9. BD17

    BD17
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    Judas was created to fulifill God's purpose. Does not matter if you guys like it or not that is the truth.
     
  10. Blammo

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    Okay :laugh: I give up, you win.
     
  11. J. Jump

    J. Jump
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    While I agree with that in principal I think we would disagree on what "purpose" is.
     
  12. DHK

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    That is not true. God doesn't cause or force anyone to do anything. James states, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God, for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
    God is not the author of evil. He does not even tempt man to do evil, nor in fact force them to do evil--the same as causing them to do evil. Each man chooses to do evil on his accord. All sin is totally voluntarily. Judas was not forced to betray Jesus. Neither will any nation be forced to attack Israel. Just because God knows about it doesn't mean man doesn't have a choice in it.
    DHK
     
  13. Blammo

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    I change my mind. :applause: DHK wins.
     
  14. TaliOrlando

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    Amen!!! Awesome:1_grouphug:
     
  15. BD17

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    60On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
    61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

    66From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

    67"You do not want to leave too, do you?" Jesus asked the Twelve.

    68Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."

    70Then Jesus replied, "Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71(He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

    Well Judas was chosen to be the one who betrayed, Christ. You are right DHK God did not force Judas to do anything he was just following his desires, and did the thing he was a slave to... that being sin. This is what Judas was created for destruction, is it not a wonderful thing that even though he betrayed Christ, God's plan for that betrayal was to bring redemption to His people. I love how God takes something bad and uses it for His glory. Why if Christ knew Judas was going to betray Him did he CHOOSE him? It was so God's purpose will be fulfilled, so God's plan will be completed.

    In the word's of Christ... "It is finished"
     
    #15 BD17, Sep 12, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2006

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