Did God know

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Scofield, Mar 22, 2004.

  1. Scofield

    Scofield
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    Adam and Eve would sin? If He did, then did He plan to send Jesus from the beginning of time?

    (thinking out loud)

    God created the world knowing people would be sent to hell for sin, knowing that He would have to atone, knowing that not all would be saved...hummmmm.
     
  2. Yelsew2

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    Jesus is called "The Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the World"
     
  3. Scofield

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    So you agree, God know people would be sent to hell and created them anyways?
     
  4. Yelsew2

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    God knew that many would reject him, but he made them anyway. He also knew that Many would accept Him, and those that do accept him he can "keep" for eternity.

    You have to start somewhere, and God started with one, made a second, and from them have come, as of today, some 6 Billion living today. Sadly less than half of them are included among those who have come to faith in God.
     
  5. Me2

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    God knows everything...Stop trying to pin down God as a "half knowing" God.

    God knows the end results of any group of choices.
    as well as each individual choice comprising the results of the whole.

    God knows step one, and step two, and step three....until the end is completed.

    It is man who doesnt know how God Plans to attain his goals...

    God created the world knowing that Jesus Christ would defeat Death. knowing each choice required to attain his Goals.
     
  6. Scofield

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    In that case, you also agree that God created those who he knew would be sent to hell?
     
  7. Corry Cox

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    Yes. However, this does not equate to "God created some to go to Hell" or "God created sin" or any other statement of that sort.

    <><
    IHS
    cbc
     
  8. Me2

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    Scofield,

    Yes?!!?, as it also depends on what you call "hell", and its purpose, and its duration?

    I call it a state of reprobation and its environment is under the law without christ and its duration is during the reign of the sons of God.

    (there is a purpose for the vessels of wrath that God has predestined them to fulfill.)

    putting this aside. we needs to examine how God creates. God creates in its complete created form. its perfect form. When God created this universe, He began its existence 3 billion years in our past?
    He created "time" to contain its existence from its "point of origin". God makes man complete in his spiritual form.
    yet places us in our temporary flesh tents to begin our existence from our point of origin..
    we are deconstructed from our point of complete spiritual perfection and are reconstructed to allow us to learn from our beginning in these tents of flesh of who we are.

    Ask yourself when was Jesus Christ Coronated Lord?
    In Eternity. and who witnesses this event?

    The sons of God. and it occurred before the foundation of the world "in spirit".

    God knows everything we do because he designed us to do whatever is necessary to bring us to the completed perfect form he originally intends us to be. imagine hundreds of billions of creatures. all with individual thoughts and activities.

    We are creatures of infinity (absoluteness). although today we are witnessing ourselves in time as finite. we will move in, out and through time in our completed form. as well as move in and out of space.

    investigate Jesus in his resurrected form. He could move in and out of time and space. this is the forerunner of the sons of God. The sons will have the same capabilities.

    Me2
     
  9. Scofield

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    Yes. However, this does not equate to "God created some to go to Hell" or "God created sin" or any other statement of that sort.

    <><
    IHS
    cbc
    </font>[/QUOTE]Good thing I didn't say that.
     
  10. BBNewton

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    Scofield,

    Either God brought into existance people he knew would go to hell or he doesn't have absolute foreknowledge.

    To say that God does not have absolute foreknowledge is to deny his omniscience. To deny God's omniscience is to deny the existance of God.

    Therefore God does create people he know will go to hell, or God does not exist.
     
  11. Primitive Baptist

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    Since we all allow that God at least knew Adam would sin, and Arminians believe repentance and faith are conditions and not consequences of election, the real question becomes WHY WOULD GOD CREATE MEN AND WOMEN HE KNEW WOULD GO TO HELL BECAUSE HE DID NOT INSURE THAT THE GOSPEL WOULD BE PREACHED TO THEM. You might say that it is our responsibility to save people, but then that puts redemption in the hands of men, not God. That sickens me.
     
  12. Yelsew2

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    God created but one human, made one more from a part of the first, then did not create or make any more, his creation of humans ended at two. He made them male and female with the inherent ability to reproduce themselves, and they have been fruitful! God also made it so that NO TWO OF US IS exactly like any other. Living today are over 6 Billion similar but totally unique human beings, All in need of a savior. All in need of Hearing the Word of God, and ALL fully capable of hearing and believing the word of God and each unique human is capable of having faith in God that comes from within.

    Ain't God Great!
     
  13. Frogman

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    Along with that 6 billion, are you counting infants and those mentally incapable of understanding?


    You said:
    Which of the number of 6 billion have not yet sinned? This number have no need of a savior, they have no need of being redeemed.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  14. Me2

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    You guys crack me up at times.

    God is omniescience. He knows from a vantage point of absoluteness. Outside time. He doesnt come in and out of our lives to inspect our lives from time to time.

    he lives in and through each human being each second of their lives. he is bringing mankind to completeness through many ages of finite time and stages of growth.

    This age is specific to the calling of the "sons of God" to represent mankind in ages to come, before his creation as well as God himself. the sons of God are the mediators between the two "parties".

    ***

    hell is a attitudinal condition as well as temporary place of opposition to the work of righteousness through the sons of God and will be in opposition to provide resistance until the plan of God has neared its completion with the vessels of wrath coming to the knowledge of Christ Last.

    Even today we hear the vessels of Wrath exclaiming that 99% of Gods creation will be tormented forever and never to come to know God and his complete righteousness. What did creation do to deserve such an infinite and merciless consequence?

    ***

    while the true "sons of God" welcome all whom God draws today through the knowledge and personal relationship of his resurrected Christ as long as GOD offers mercy to his creation...which is for eternity!!!

    God knows because he made his creations complete
    "in Christ" he made us in the image before he placed us in these flesh tents. We could have existed for millions of years before hand yet when we are physically born on this earth. we start this miraculous journey with no knowledge of what previously transpired as God has planned for us to discover. as if we were just created with a fulfilled future life waiting for us to discover.

    God knows us because he planned what we do.

    ***

    Yet to dismiss all vessels of wrath today as "hell bound" for ever is also a misnomer. for even those who are in its domain is placed into the lake of fire.(think about it)

    ***

    I just cant get over the discovery of those who dismiss the majority of creation as hopeless and to be discarded by God. The same God who calls himself Love. yet I can see how those who dont believe God will hold onto their salvation. If this is how they discribe their God of Love...??

    so did God design them with the capability of believing their own imaginations before the truth they hear today? Yea buddy..!

    their just our disobedient little brothers and sisters. waiting to be born. being stubborn in the womb, I guess. [​IMG]
     
  15. BBNewton

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    Me2,

    I'm sorry friend, but your input is philosophical talk. We are discussing the objective realities of the Bible. Thanks for your thoughts though.
     
  16. Me2

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    BBNewton,

    the commandment of God for those called of him is to desire all men be saved.(1 tim 2:4)

    it is to desire all men be filled with the knowledge of THE Lord Jesus Christ.(1 tim 2:4)

    it is to desire that all men eventually to be all in all with their Creator God in His Son. (1 cor 15:28)

    ***

    1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
    1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.

    Savior of All men..

    any less is shameful to speak of by a so-called son of an all merciful, all forgiving father.

    I see things differently BBNewton. I see 1) specially those belive, as well as 2) all men being saved.

    theres two plans at work here.

    Me2
     
  17. BBNewton

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    Me2,

    Debating universalism is a futile point. Your main problem is the philosophical baggage you try to bring into Christianity.

    "Savior of All men..

    any less is shameful to speak of by a so-called son of an all merciful, all forgiving father."


    Nowhere in the Bible does it say that men deserve a Saviour at all.
     
  18. Me2

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    BBNewton,

    nor have I the need to debate universalism.

    we are what we are today. given enough time we change into what we will be.

    ***

    now as to man "deserving" a savior.

    you show me where man created man?.

    God made man BBNewton. God has a plan for man.

    God put man in this state of vanity to show man his need for a savior.
    so called people state they are in contact with the creator of mankind and that he has preplanned that 95% of his creation be tormented forever without mercy.

    these so called people are lying. They havent spoken to God for they would have known of his commandment given to all men.

    and that is to love all men.

    Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    they dont fool me BBNewton. they cant for they dont possess "love for all men" as commanded by God himself.

    A Lot of talk heard, but little love shown.

    Im reminding arminians as well as calvinists of the commandments they so easily look away from.

    Me2
     
  19. BBNewton

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    Me2,

    I appreciate your concern about the lack of love among the brethren. We are to be gentle and humble of heart and love one another and we fall short so often. But on the same token, it is not loving to treat false doctrine as truth. That is the opposite of love.
     
  20. Johnv

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    Since God is categorically omniscient, the answer to any "did God know" question is always "yes".

    As far as questions concerning God and time, those are difficult to fathom, since God exists in all places and at all times simultaneously. Our existence is one of moving forward along a linear time line. God is not limited to a linear timeline.

    Sorry for getting techie on ya there...
     

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