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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Apr 29, 2011.
Where did that get said in the biblical accounts?
8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
1st peter 3:
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Tell me what it says. Ephepisans 4:9 and 1st Peter 3:19.
Jesus body went to the grave. Charasmatics often preach He preached in hell.
What are the creeds you refer to? I have heard of the apostles creed thought it might have come from RCC.
First you have determine what in your mind you understand as hell.
The words translated hell esp. in the KJV do not all have the same meaning.
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
This is scripture, the word of God that says the soul of the man Jesus was resurrected from the realm of the dead called in the Greek Hades, the Hebrew Sheol translated by the kings men as hell.
From Psalms 16 and Acts 2 there is not a doubt that the soul of the Christ was in the realm of the dead called Sheol/Hades Jesus himself called it the heart of the earth, called the lowest part of the earth in another Psalm of David for three days and three nights, whatever that means.
That is where he was resurrected from. BTW King David's soul is still in hell and his flesh did see corruption for he was speaking of the Christ and not himself when he wrote that prophecy, so says Peter.
Thought I would add that it is from this same hell that death the gates thereunto will not be able to prevail over the church of the living God. They also will be resurrected from, that is born from hell into the kingdom of God.
I'm not the OP but I can speak to this:
In the Ephesians 4 passage, we see that Jesus came to earth and then ascended to heaven. It does not mean that He descended to earth and then descended to hell.
1 Peter 3 is speaking of the time during Noah's life when there was a chance for people to be saved. Why would Jesus go to hell, where one didn't have a chance to ever get to heaven to preach to them? That makes no sense. Unless you think that Jesus went there to tease them or something....
Another good post Ann. You are correct ,absolutely
Yikes! Jesus soul (Body and spirit), died, was in the grave (Hell, Hade, Sheol), but His spirit didn't die, nor could it.
Not a bone of His body would be broken nor would His body see decay.
This is simple, His body died, it had to for our sake, but Christ LIVED! Oh yes for us these three days! He preached to those in the grave, and when He was resurrected He AS GOOD AS IMMEDIATELY resurrected those in the grave, that is their bodies.
I don't know what else to say except you can find this information almost anywhere where no pentecostal books to sell.
Here, here!! Amen!!
I'll second that, Brother!!
Yes, Jesus paid the full price for our sins. The price was not mere bodily suffering and death, then His act on the Cross would have been ineffectual indeed.
Hell could not hold Him, because He is incorruptible.
Please consider the following article:
It deals with both the question of the OP and to the related question of whther Christ died spiritually.
RC Sproul several months ago, in a video missive to his followers, instructing them how to reshuffle the Creed to make it work:
skip to 20:30
Ephesians 4:9 The Greek KAtoteros is used The root kato means beneath this is the word lower coupling that with meros apart or portion, then we see a region beneath the earth. This would be Hades, sheoul.
Now the 1st Peter passage Kerrusso which is to proclaim or to be a herald. Christ proclaimed the pneuma (spirits) in phulake (a guarding place). So Christ went and proclaimed to the spirits in a guarding place. Then peter says they were formerly from Noah's time. If it were in Noah's time they would not have been in a guarding place.
The original proves out He descended the portion beneath the earth. That He proclaimed to the spirits in the Guarding place.
Jude 6 the angels which kept not their principality or first estate, are bound reserved in Darkness. They are in a guarding place.
This is a good example of not seeing the forest for the trees. Or, in this case, seeing the context for the grammatical details. Paul, when he writes of "lower places of the Earth", is actually drawing upon several OT passages, notably Isa. 44:21-23:
“Remember these, O Jacob,
And Israel, for you are My servant;
I have formed you, you are My servant;
O Israel, you will not be forgotten by Me!
I have blotted out, like a thick cloud, your transgressions,
And like a cloud, your sins.
Return to Me, for I have redeemed you.”
Sing, O heavens, for the LORD has done it!
Shout, you lower parts of the earth;
Break forth into singing, you mountains,
O forest, and every tree in it!
For the LORD has redeemed Jacob,
And glorified Himself in Israel.
Notice especially the parts underlined. The "lower parts of the earth" are contrasted to the "heavens". These "lower parts" are simply lower in comparison to the heavens. The whole passage is from God's point of view, and is a praise that God - Christ - would go "slumming" - leave His majesty and come down to where we live, the lower parts - to rescue us.
Notice also that these lower parts have mountains and trees. This is just the earth. Other verses can also be drawn upon but this should be enough.
The whole Jude 6 passage is another misconstruction on what the Bible actually states. People like Chuck Missler have really muddied the water on this passage by their sensationalistic slant on Jude (and Gen 6.) But that would be another thread altogether.
It's really very simple. The wages of sin is death.
Who paid the wages, and are they paid in full?
3.At the Cross.
That last answer was for the question that should have been asked: Where did Christ pay for our sins. It was at the cross, not in Hell.
Yes, Christ died on the Cross.
What does it mean that He died? That's what we're arguing. Not where He died.
So, if they're paid in full, then that death that is waiting for us, the one we no longer have to suffer, has been satisfied. It's the one that will have no power over us. Is that the first death, or the Second Death?
That that position of Christ paying for Sins was in hell is what many of the so called Word of Faith movement epouse, as they teach jesus died on the Cross spiritual , actually became a sinner, and had to get reborn again while in hell!
I believe the Eph. 4 Passage is speaking of his death but not the Petyer passage.